Treating estrogen responsive cancer naturally
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I do exercises with 5 lb weights (one arm at a time) while watching TV. Since doing them, I now have more strength in my shoulders and have even developed some triceps! I also do various leg exercises.
This keeps me going whenever I'm injured and can't jog. Due to my osteoporosis I often have a new ache which limits my running/jogging and I never know when it will crop up. So when I feel good I probably do too much, but I want to take advantage of the good days. It is really had to know how to pace myself.
One time I got a stress fracture below my knee just from pulling up a stubborn plant in my yard-it took 6 weeks to heal. Another time I lifted a heavy sack of dog food and after having severe back pain I finally had some x-rays. Diagnosis; 3 fractured vertebrae! So I have to be so careful; just a wrong twist can injure something.
Today my neck (which also has arthritis in it) is sore, but I won't give into that pain and plan to do my usual daily exercises. You just have to keep pushing -in my opinion. My neighbors (also in their seventies) just shake their heads. They think I'm nuts. But I just want to remain healthy as long as possible.
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Do you take arimidex or tamox dogsandjogs?0
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No Purple. I don't take anything now. But remember, I'm 76, so that makes a big difference according to studies I've read.
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Yep. it sure does,. dogsandjogs. You have almost 20 years on me. (I'm 54) I need to find something for this ER PR+ crap that my tarnished health will tolerate. My goal is to make things better, not worse, bear in mind! ( Everything seems to have a SE that is contraindicatory with my particular health condition)
Wish I could jog!
cant
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Hi ladies
I just read 2 wonderful books on the airplane to & from dads funeral. David Brownstien iodine book convinces me that iodine (per correct protocols - read the book) should be added to the summary document of natural treatments posted earlier in this thread.
I also read "what your doctor may not tell you about breast cancer". This book is dated and lacking the full picture vis a vis iodine but worth reading for chapter 7 alone for complete description of estrogen metabolism - including WHY the cruciferous veggies help.
I very much encourage everyone on this thread to read these 2 books - although read iodine book first to fill in the gaps and disregard some of Dr. Lee book.0 -
Let me try again with the link: http://cancer.ucsf.edu/_docs/crc/nutrition_breast.pdf
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Capburke, thanks very much.
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I don't remember the specific site. I was at my sisters. I had been doing a search for nutrition and BC when I came across it. It was a newer study so it may be refuted later, but I thought I'd pass it along. I wish I would have sent myelf the article. If I come acrossed it again I will post the site.
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Hi ladies, I've been following this thread for a while, in hopes of learning how best to take charge of my treatment. I understand that this thread pertains to those choosing natural methods only, and so I want to begin by telling you that I am taking tamoxifin. I am about 3 months in.
Since so many of you are so well researched, I wanted to ask your opinion on my supplement list which The Block Center has recommended for me. Any insight you can provide - as I just learned from another BCO lady and one should NOT take resveratrol if you have hormone positive BC - and The Block Center has prescribed this for me! What the heck, right?!
Here's my list:
- Omega 3: 450mg EPA and 100mg DHA twice daily
- Curcumin: 500mg daily
- DIM: 100mg twice daily
- Melatonin PR: working up to 21mg daily (though someone just told me that this amount is what's typically recommended for stage IV BC, and I am stage I. ???)
- Probiotic: 20 billion CFU
- Resveratrol: 200mg twice daily
- Vitamin
1000 IU daily
I'm feeling frustrated that The Block Center would recommend Resveratrol if it is NOT good for hormone responsive BC... Is there anything else I should be concerned about? Or anything else you can comment on?
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!!0 -
Hi Esmerelda, if it were me, I would definitely trust the Block Center over another woman's opinion and no offense meant to her or anyone else. The Block Center is highly regarded, well researched and the leading integrative cancer center in the country. There are so many conflicting bits of information out there about these things that you really need an expert to be able to separate fact from fiction. I read the Block Center book and thought it was a great book integrating traditional and complementary treatments. I would trust their advice. It is great that you have been able to use them for a resource. Thank you for sharing your protocol because it is so good to see their recommendations on these various supplements.
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I agree with graced. Given how much conflicting info there is on supplements and what should/should not be eaten, I'd go with the Block Center.
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You know I followed the McDougall diet from the book, The Starch Solution, strictly for a week and I did not have any hot flashes despite taking Femara. I couldnt keep it up,raised on meat and it was just too hard,I am weak in that.
My PS gave me Protandim and it has Turmeric in it so I dont take a separate supplement for that.
graced,I see you too are a fan of the book,Waking the Warrior Goddess,,love that book!
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Thanks for mentioning the Starch Solution. Was not familiar with that. Sounds like my kind of diet.
Luckily my Mom was a vegetarian so we never had meat. Therefore I have never liked it that much and don't miss it.
I feel so much better since following the vegan diet for the past 9 months of so. The only thing I really miss is cheese---
I found that I eat when depressed, anxious or irritable, rather than when I'm hungry
I ate so little as a teenager: oatmeal for breakfast, PB&J sandwich for lunch, an apple in the afternoon and then dinner. We only had desserts on special occasions. My goal is to eat that simply again and to get back to 125 lbs (instead of 140, thanks to the constant appetite I had when on Aromasin)
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I would stick with what Block Ctr recommended. I would, however, try to increase my intake of nutrient dense foods in place of the supplements and gradually wean off the supplements (with the ctrs. approval of course).
For much of this journey through BC I have been vegan/vegetarian/whole foods/organic/etc. and I've had a lot of people after my 3rd bout with BC (gently of course) comment on how strange it is that my great diet doesn't seem to be making much of a difference in stopping the cancer (well I am NED right now so something is working but I agree it is probably the radiation and Xeloda). Over the last 6 months I have been asking myself the same question.
A couple of weeks ago I saw Dr. Fuhrum's PBS show Eat to Live and after some prodding from my husband I bought his book. The book repeated a lot of what I've already read but the one thing that struck me was that just because you're a vegan or vegetarian doesn't mean you are eating nutrient dense foods. In fact looking back, my diet was mostly grains based low on fruit and vegetables (actually almost no green vegetables--yikes!). He believes that fighting cancer and recurrences comes from eating 90% of your daily calories from high nutrient dense foods (Kale is #1 on the scale -- sugar at the bottom of the range). So two weeks ago I started focusing on eating big salads with lots of greens and mushrooms, fruit salads, steamed veggies, etc. I didn't deprive myself by saying "I can't have cream in my coffee or I can't eat this cookie" but I found that I really was so full from the food I was eating that I didn't eat much of the stuff that was low on the scale. ( I also lost 4 pounds!! and feel great)
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I tell people all the time that you can be a vegetarian and still be unhealthy. You can live on Mountain Dew and potato chips and be a vegetarian.The fact that you eliminate certain things from your diet doesn't make any difference if you are not replacing them with good healthful foods. I eat a little meat and dairy (hormone free and organic) but go heavy on the fruits and veggies. I did it originally for another condition but it's made this easier - not dealing with cancer and the diet changes too.
And whose to say that your cancer may not have come back worse or more often or even earlier in the first place if you weren't eating like you were. When you look back at the cancer stats I believe it's obvious that there is a diet correlation with cancer and many other diseases. Most of the countries with low cancer stats are poor countries that do not eat the crap we do. I don't think that is a coincidence.
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Mini1 - You're absolutely right--vegetarian doesn't necessarily equal healthy eating. Here's a recent study that supports higher intake of nutrient dense foods (as measured by Carotenoid levels in the blood) equals lower recurrence rates in breast cancer survivors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2683031/
"In this cohort of women with a history of early stage breast cancer, higher biological exposure to carotenoids, measured over time during a trial testing the effect of a very high vegetable diet, was associated with an estimated 33% greater likelihood of breast cancer-free survival when compared with the lowest tertile of carotenoid exposure, regardless of study group assignment. "
These results are equal to many chemotherapy regimes that are currently the "standard of care" . Wouldn't it have been great to get this info when you were being counseled regarding chemotherapy, radiation and hormone therapy???
I'm not saying that we shouldn't do chemo (although I know this is in the Alternative Med forum) but at the very least we should be told about the protective effect of a nutrient dense diet.
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i AM CURIOUS - HOW MANY HERE ARE DEALING WITH PERIMENOPAUSAL SYMPTOMS THAT AERE SEVERE, AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT THEM? i RECENTLY STARTED TO TAKE BLACK COHOSH AMIDST SEVERE, LIFE THREATENING SYMPTOMS. THERE IS NO SOLID CONTRAINBDICTION AGAINST IT. . WOULD LIKE TO HEAR SOME STORTOES. SORRY ABOUT ALL CAPS.
--SPECIFICALLY, DID THE BLACK COHOSH HELP WITH HOT FLASHES? HOW ABOUT INSOMINA AND MOODS?
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Athena, sorry for your troubles. So far, mine are not that bad. It is probably genetic, my mom did not suffer too badly either.
I do find that the more veggies I can shovel in my face, the better it is and exercise is a must. I always moved a fair bit, but now I have kicked it up an extra notch and it helps with all the symptoms you mentioned.0 -
I'm confused by the study of the women with the high vegie intake. It looked so promising. ( Although, just into it , I read something that seemed contradictory. But then this:
"Over the WHEL Study intervention period, diet intervention reduced the proportion of women in the lowest tertile in that group by 26% but did not improve prognosis.There are several possible explanations for these results. The first is that carotenoids or their biologically active metabolites reduce the risk for recurrence or new primary breast cancer. Long-term exposure to these compounds may affect cancer progression, and even a dramatic change following breast cancer is not sufficient to modify this risk."
WTF!????
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Well I won't profess to having a great understanding of science, but I would think that with the variety of cancers out there and the variables of the people who get them, that it is highly unlikely that any study would have consistant results among all participants. I know they try to get contol groups that are similar, but what about how you were raised or the things you did as a young adult, for example. Even though it may have been years since you ate, drank, or participated in other behaviors, it could affect the way your body responds to a disease decades later.
Also, different cancers respond in different ways. There are so many variables. That's what makes learning all this frustrating to me. I'm trying to base what I think is best for me based on the testing of other people that may or may not be like me at all except that we all have BC.
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I think what they are saying is that those with the lowest plasma carotenoids (that measure fruit and veg consumption) in the beginning of the study stayed in the lowest group despite the intervention of diet counseling, cooking classes, etc. Overall they were able to raise the carotenoid levels across all groups; however, those with the lowest levels (although higher than they started with) experienced the least protection from cancer.
"Despite a substantial increase in average total plasma carotenoids across all strata of baseline levels in the intervention group, the majority of women in the lowest baseline tertile had the lowest biological exposure to carotenoids over the study period in both study groups (82% of the comparison and 63% of the intervention group)."
Actually the dietary guidelines in this study don't reflect a 90% nutrient dense diet-- it is quite a bit lower. So I wonder how it would have turned out if the intervention group had higher levels of carotenoid plasma?
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Purple, I was going to ask if you can take iodine. It's supposed to really help with goiters. I have had one in the past, and also have fibrocystic breasts so have been building up my iodine very slowly. After about 6 months now, I'm up to 1/2 an Iodoral 12.5mg tab a day. Some of the ladies on the Yahoo group I'm on are taking 100mg a day. When I get up to a full tab, I will be getting about the same daily amount as the average Japanese lady and I think that's fine.
Really sceptical of studies that say nutrition has no effect on cancer, sorry. Tend to believe they are funded by big pharma. Also tend not to believe that we get enough of the micro nutrients we need by eating a "balanced diet". You would have to work really hard at it and eat a lot of stuff that isn't normally in an American diet. If you really look into it, grains don't do a lot for us. You can get all the fiber you need from vegetables. And my grass fed beef and free range chicken and eggs are way ahead nutritionally of any fake meat vegetarian options. I happen to like not being hungry. I also like what my diet does for my brain, my joint pain and fatigue, my stomach issues.
I finally have my appointment with an Integrative Oncologist next week, after three reschedules by her office starting last May. This group is associated with the big cancer center here, and is on my health insurance, so I'm really hoping they are not all about selling me more expensive supplements.
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Hi Diana
You asked:"Purple, I was going to ask if you can take iodine. It's supposed to really help with goiters.."
Thx for your interest!
It is complex as I am sure you know so I am not certain. My integrative dr., JUST told me not to. I see my endo dr. in 2 weeks and I am going to ask her.I am on the "hyper" thyroid edge. That may matter. I think too much iodine might ablate the thyroid and make me hypo. I am not 100%.
THX
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Thanks for your input, everyone. The only reason I brought up the Resveratrol descrepancy is because after someone warned me about it, I did do a little research and saw that Memorial Sloan Kettering does NOT recommend it for hormone pos BC. Harrumph. I have a phone consultation with The Block Center on Friday and will definitely ask!
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purple - you asked earlier about people taking curcumin/turmeric. I take 1000mg per day - I was taking 2000, but dialed it back a bit a few months ago. I take curcumin phytosome, and I buy whichever brand I can find that is on sale. The only "se" I've noticed is that the constipation I did suffer from due to letrozole went away. Not a side effect I mind.
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I saw the recommendation from Sloan-Kettering as well.
What is the purpose of the iodine supplentation? I wish there was an intragative onco doc in my area. 0 -
I used supplements, IV Vitamin C, Iscador, etc and was able to keep cancer undectable for 2 years after surgery. Now I am on to the big guns, chemo, along with supplements and dietary changes. I work very closely with a team of medical doctors (nutritionists, oncologists, internists) and do not recommend taking supplements with out discussing it with a licensed professional because supplements can have a tremedous impact both positive/negative.
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THX gardengumby
My Integrative DR recommended 3 1000 mg day= 3000 mg total.
That sounded like a lot to me!
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Been gone awhile, catching up to do. Have strong opinion on a lot of the discussion, throwing it all at once into the mix. Remember it is my opinion. Thanks.
Of note - the FDA does not recommend high amounts, there is always room for more when needed. Read about iodine supplementation on bco, for one, and the Vitamin D for another. These are needed to be high usage and FDA recommended a lot a lot a lot lower. Just saying, for me, realizing what I realize, I go for more, not the 'prescribed' lesser amounht, I go for what the medical person is telling me (if I trust them) and not what is on the back of the supplementation bottle in % of FDA recommended amounts.
Interesting --- The oncologist I went to who ran tests on me (I did not do chemo)... he is East Indian and the onc for a friend who I ran into Sunday... she said he said hahaha... that East Indians eat a lot of cucumin and curry both and they do not have a high incidence of cancer. I don't know how true. But imagine eating these at every meal. For your entire lifetime. That is prevention, I suppose.
The way I see it, these foods are from their part of the world, another way for them to be protected from cancer. So in our part of the world, since imagine there are no imports, what would the foods / spices / herbs be for us so we could have a low incidence of cancer and to protect from it even if it did begin in some people?
I am using what is from my part of the world and from theirs, I want to know I gave this my all, while benefiting, not causing myself harm.
My endocrinologist (endo) asked me to go on 2000 - 4000 of omega-3, I am choosing the algae oil. Per his subscriptions, I am also using melatonin ....... and a micronized Vit D pill (((of note, I was told by three doctors to take from 8000 to 10000 a day on Vitamin D, I was using the sublingual spray and my Vitamin D was still too low, only 50, my endo and one other doctor want it at 200, endo says Vitamin D and cancer goes hand in hand. So I am on it, the sun this summer did not even help))) ........ and 100 mg bioidentical progesterone cream to get more progesterone in my body and that will fill the receptor sites on PR+ which helps stop the ER+ from doing it's thing. My doctor knows what I was taking before seeing him, he was thrilled, said I was doing 90% right because of the cancer. I was taking tumeric extract, different supplements to support my immune system, get it working well for me. One of the supplements I use right now is Taxacor from the Pacific yew tree, our part of the world, no ships needed to get it to me but it is an extremely long walk. I wonder where the chastetree berry is from, that balances hormones and I use it.
Important to note, when the supplements and even foods are taken is key, do not give the body soup. For instance, I take my raspberry seed power alone on empty stomach. I mix it withsome water and pomegranate or apricot juice, not citrus, and drink it alone. When I do use some supplements together is with theBudwig mixture, then take the Taxacor before, the iodine in, the l-tyrosine, etc with. Rest of day, I squirt an extract in mouth and drink water, hold it in mouth, let it soak in then swallow. Have to say, I do not get a lot of eating done.
The reservatol, if that is indeed a phytoestrogen, the estrogenic properties will be used by the body to fill the ER+ receptor sites, then the body's estrogen and the pollutant and synthetic xenoestrogens cannot take those spots and fuel cancer. I may be wrong, but this is what I understand from all the reading.
About the media, including magazines..... A lot of what we read is skimming the surface of what is called 'junk media science' and that is how we get confused too, because the journalists are confused since they are skimming and pumping out articles. The real reading must come from the sources who are doing the studies. That is how the bioidentical hormones became suspect when they should never have been 'taken' or discouraged from us to use them to save our arses, all these years without. Because of junk science reporting and the medical profession not looking closely at the truth of the studies.
For me, as a cancer person choosing to use only supplements and nutrition to recoup my health.... there is no way in this world I can get what I need from the foods alone to do so. This is life and death and I need all the help I can get. And of course, it must be in ways that are beneficial to my body, not working against me. Vitamin B17 in amounts that are toxic to the cancer cells. Ellagic acid made by my body from the Meeker variety of raspberries (red and black) that stops the multiplication of the cancer cells and will allow the cancer cells to begin natural cell death. Enough tumeric, yew, olive leaf, and others I depend upon now. I am soon to begin the oleander too, now that I have completed the Laetrile for a time. And later I will be using the fucoidan again. There is no way I could eat the seaweed that holds this cell and eat enough to benefit, not once cancer has begun, it comes from a lifetime of consuming that nutrient that is provided by that part of the world.
Gotta get to work, never leave this desk but gotta focus. Later!
LOVEEssa
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Anybody here use Paw Paw in their regimen?
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