STEAM ROOM FOR ANGER
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Use whatever makes you comfortable.
I've had friends in the past who had to shoulder so much of the caregiver crap, that they actually became ill because of the stress and strain and DIED before their cancer-ridden spouse did. (I worry about my own DH in this regard.)
Did "they" have cancer? No, only the one spouse had it, but they may as well BOTH have had it because the outcome was the same: They both died...the caregiver dying long before they should have.
I know some of you will just say, "Oh, that was just a coincidental." Bullcrap!!!! I've seen it happen too many times to be considered "mere coincidence."
So, if saying "we" have cancer makes it easier to cope with this miserable hell, you gotta do AND say whatever you gotta do and say.
Who am I - or anyone else for that matter - to judge?
L
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I totally agree Lita.
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I will say one more thing and get off, or I'll start crying - and I'm normally NOT a crier.
My St 4 is getting worse to the point where I'm in so much pain and so weak that I need help getting up off the toilet, help bathing, and can't be left at home alone anymore because I've had too many face plants. My DH is my primary c'giver. He has to do so much now, but he bravely soldiers on.
And when I see the look on his face sometimes, it TOTALLY and UTTERLY breaks my heart. And my DD...don't get me started.
Yes, I'M THE ONE who has to go for blood draws, IV chemo sessions, scans, see the dr., etc.., but my entire family has to SUFFER all because of my second spouse, Mr. Cancer's shenanigans.
Do "we" all have cancer? No, technically only I do. But I will tell you this for free: when my mom had deadly soft-tissue sarcoma, we ALL had to go thru it and take turns driving her to appts, sitting with her, etc. And I'll never forget what my father said 45 years ago, "Well, we all have cancer now."
There isn't a day that goes by that I don't think about my mom and those words my dad said, and I realize that my DH and DD will have to deal with all this for DECADES to come long after I'm gone.
So yes, in my family "WE" have cancer.
L
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I also do not agree with saying people are whining on here. This is a safe space. If family are reading these boards, they may get hurt. Although it is a public forum, there is a reason we stay anonymous. Here we can safely vent or say things we cannot say to family.
There has been a lot of judgment on this thread lately. We should be supporting each other, not tearing each other down.
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My DH needs to start his own thread because of all the crap he has to deal with in my regard.
Because of Mr. Cancer, I YELL at him, SWEAR at him, and here lately, I've actually HIT HIM in my frustration. We've been together for OVER 30 years, and I've never exhibited this type of behavior before, maybe it's the Tx and all the steroids.
Yes, I realize we both have "our own" experiences, with Mr. C, but is HIS emotional pain any less powerful than mine? I can take other drugs to relieve some of the physical SE symptoms, but what does he get to do? Stand on the sidelines and watch, nurse his aching back from lifting my fat ass up off the toilet and off the bed, and sometimes get verbally abused as I deal with my frustration over all this.
I actually asked both DH and DD how they felt b4 I sat down to write this particular post, and they said, "No, we don't technically have cancer, but we have to deal with the aftermath and all the other crap." So, tangentially, we ALL have cancer.
But like I said, use whatever terms make you feel better...and don't criticize others for the choices they have made in terms of dealing with this effing beast.
L
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Lita, the experience for a spouse or family care-giver can be awful. I have no doubt that it can cause physical illness. If a spouse says "our lives revolve completely around breast cancer" or "this cancer is hell for us". I'd be totally understanding and sympathetic. I would be interested to hear more about what the spouse is going through, because spouses need support too. To take my earlier post one step further, as I see it, using "we" to talk about experiences that are unique to the patient not only minimizes the patient's experience, but it might also minimize the difficulties experienced by a spouse or family member. When "we" have to get through surgery and chemo, the whole other set of less in-your-face issues faced by the spouse probably don't get much attention.
Maybe my feeling about this is biased by the fact that most of the time when I see someone posting on this site using "we", it's a spouse or family member who comes across as being a fair bit controlling. Or it's a patient who comes across as being meek. Lita, definitely not talking about you on that one.
Edited to add: Lita, we were writing at the same time. I understand the statement "We all have cancer". Everyone's life has been taken over by your cancer, so yes, you all have cancer. Would you also say "We are having chemo next week?" Or "The doctor said that we have to have another surgery"? Maybe I'm parsing words, but I see a difference. I'm trying to understand and expand my views.
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Depends on how one chooses to view it.
I can't drive anymore because of brain mets, so DH has to drive me to Tx's AND HE SITS with me while I have chemo. So yes, WE are having chemo (as well as blood draws, etc.) and no, he's not in the tube with me while I have PET scans and MRI's, but he has to give up HOURS of his day to cart me around.
So frustrating. Can't wait until I can "transition" and this is all over with.
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My wedding vows 30 years ago said, "In sickness and in health," so as a married couple we both DO have to share the experience.
It's ok, for me anyway, if DH want to use the term "we have cancer."
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Lita: I've been thinking about you and I just asked for you in your own thread. It is a terribly difficult situation for you and your family, and I am very sorry. I wish this was just a word choice problem. HUGS
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Lita, thank you for the reply. I understand what you are saying and I understand how it applies in your situation. You, your DH and DD are going through an almost unfathomable experience that binds you together. I am so sorry that you all are going through this.
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To quote John Donne: "No man is an island, entire of itself" ... so while we may be the ones who have BC, the disease does have an impact on our loved ones. The impact may be direct or indirect depending upon circumstances, but who can really gauge what it is? So the semantics of "we" versus "I or me" really boils down to how much we want others to participate or engage in our experience. Some opt to include and recognize the toll it takes on their loved ones and others opt to limit it to only their personal experience.
It would seem this conversation has been cathartic for some and upsetting for others but this site is about rants and ranting with the right to express anger about any situation that evokes this emotion.
Lita, I admire you for defending your stance. I thank you for sharing your experience and that of your DH and DD.
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Lita, you have earned the right to use whatever words you want by now. Your family sounds wonderful.
I don't drive. My husband takes me everywhere. So when I've had appointments, tests, surgeries, and radiation, he can certainly say "We went to radiation" or "We went for a biopsy." But if he said "We had surgery" or "We had radiation," I'm gonna have some seriously pointed words with him. And for those who objected to my original post about this, did you miss that the post that annoyed me wasn't on this site? So the couple I mentioned, using no names, aren't here. And the fact that I had to snoop on their registration page to determine which one was the patient was a pain, plus it felt intrusive. They carried it to such a Borg extreme.
Patients go through hell. Caregivers go through hell. But it's not quite the same hell. So if I want to ask another patient what they felt about or how they reacted to some treatment or experience, I want to know that I'm talking to the person whose body and mind has been through it. NOT their caregiver. Those are MY rights.
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I agree with you Lita. People should lay off judging and criticizing how they describe their experience with cancer shit. What started this is the OP who wanted to ask the cancer pt using we if they were conjoined at the hip or somethingto that effect. . Rude! Good she refrained!
I will say that I went through it pretty stress free. My bro however looked and reacted like it was him. Did I get upset? Nope. He needs to handle it and will react in his way. To tell someone you can't say that when clearly they are suffering too is not being kind and compassionate to your loved one. For some like me it's much easier to be the pt than a loved one. My dad had a stroke. As a result my bro is a big time caregiver who has set aside much of his life to help dad. No way would my dad think to correct him if he said we have an appt. My dad is so grateful for his help for without it he'd be in assisted living and not at home. If a loved one is dialed in to you, who cares what pronoun is used??? Seriously be grateful you have the support. Many are alone and would love to have a we important instead of being alone. Sounds to me like maybe there are issues going on, and not just the use of that pronoun. Always be grateful for your helpers. Think about them too. And seriously, what's with the nitpicking. Ask yourself honestly that question. Chances are it could be something deeper going on.
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Hey Lita,
You said what I was, less skillfully, trying to say about those controversial plural pronouns. That “we” means something elemental to you and your family. It may not work for everyone but what does? You are lucky to have all that love and caring. Take care.
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We, too, have cancer. He is stage 4 prostate, I am stage 2B breast cancer. We call ourselves the cancer ward. And we take turns taking care of each other. Good times! Spending our childrens’ inheritance on travel while we can.
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New topic. I think I am about to get diagnosed with a whole new kind of cancer, one with a worse prognosis than metastatic breast cancer. FRIGGIN HELL! To defy mbc statistics, to be NEAD and a few weeks away from FIVE YEARS WITH LIVER METS and now get ANOTHER CANCER? FRIGGIN HELL!
Thank you. There is a time for swearing. It says that, doesn’t it? In Ecclesiastes?
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There's definitely a time for swearing, ShetlandPony, and today's that time.
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Shetland-- I am sooo sorry to read your post. Cancer is the shittest disease. What happened?? If you don't want to explain here, that is ok. Or you can PM me anytime.
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ShetlandPony: Sorry to hear your news and agree that you are entitled to swear.
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Oh no Shetland Pony, I am so sorry to hear this. You were one of the people that encouraged me early on to fight through your posts to other people. I cannot imagine what you are going through. Serious hugs and my good wishes are being sent to you.
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Shetland, I hope to god this is NOT the case and that whatever is going on with you is not more cancer. My god. Enough already with this friggin cancer.
Enjoying the 'we have cancer' debate. Do we or don't we, that is the question!
Here's how I view it. Birth and death are solitary experiences. While there may be witnesses and helpers in attendance, only one person is born and only one person dies. I think it is fair for marriage partners to say 'we are in this together', but at the end of the whole thing one of those partners will never go home again and one will. "We' will not die together. The we ends there.
Our families are collateral damage. The cancer bomb was aimed at us, but it blew the hell out of everything as it landed and those close by were hit with flying shrapnel and likely also injured. WE were the target and most likely have sustained fatal injuries, but everyone got knocked over and shook up.
My husband says, " Runor has breast cancer. I am taking her to radiation treatment next month. I will go to all her appointments with her. WE will get through whatever happens to her." I am, at the beginning, middle and end, recognized as an individual person with an individual life. I have a name. MY experiences are mine, valid, personal. I get to own them. He is my mate. He does what he can to pick up the pieces that I no longer can carry. We are enduring together what I alone am suffering. His burden is his own and unique. But it is NOT breast cancer. It is not lymphedema. It is not daily pain. It is not medication or surgical side effects. What he is experiencing is its own, separate hell. But that is his and mine is mine and we are recognizing each other but not BEING each other.
For me, for the way I navigate life, WE does not work. It is attached (in my opinion) to a certain condescension. A certain status one bestows upon oneself. That's why it's called The Royal We - the queen gets to use it because she is granted that authority. The rest of us? Not so much. We is used correctly when a couple makes joint decisions. We bought a pool. We went to Mexico. We won the lottery. But cancer is not a joint decision that anyone chooses. It is a shit bomb that is aimed at ONE person but damages everyone. WE try to survive while SHE goes through this hell. The distinction is subtle yet enormous. (good talk everyone!)
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Shetland Pony, I'm so sorry! I hope you can find strength for a new Ned. HUGS
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Exactly! Very well said, Runor.
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👍👍
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Shetland, I hope this turns out to be a false alarm and you are not diagnosed with this other cancer. The whole frigging diagnosis process is hell and I am so sorry you are going through this.
Runor, very well put. I agree completely.
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Thank you to those who replied to my July 8 post about my sister.
Last Monday she had the double mastectomy and Fallopian tubes and ovaries removed. She's doing remarkably well; even her surgeon asked her if she really had surgery. I had to remind her that she needs to take it easy.
As I write this, I forgot to ask her if her surgical bandages will be removed by the time I get there.
Anyway, I'm off to visit her early morning this Friday. Looking forward to seeing her but I hope I don't cry. I've only been with her once in the last five years, when she flew in for four days when I had my lumpectomy.
Thanks again for your lovely expressions of concern.
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Viewfinder: Me alegra saber que tu hermana está bien y espero que también estés más tranquila. Me imagino que será difícil para ti no llorar en esta reunión, ¡no has estado con tu hermana en mucho tiempo! ¡Te deseo unos días dulces con ella, a pesar de las circunstancias! ABRAZOS
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Shetland, sending you positive thoughts, and all my massive arsenal of swear words should you need them. I hope you don't need them, ever.
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Muchas gracias, Yndorian1, eres tan dulce. Gracias a Dios por Google Translate. ¡Abrazos a ti también!
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Viewfinder: I did not realize that I had published in Spanish! I guess two languages are too much for my chemo brain! Lol😊
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