STEAM ROOM FOR ANGER
Comments
-
Irr,
Your reaction is very common among those who have had treatment at an earlier stage and then recur. I can only say allow yourself to run through all the emotions that you’re feeling. As you develop tx plan and time softens things that anger usually diminishes.
Despite your earlier tx and everything you did to put yourself in a favorable position, there is simply nothing that guarantees that one won’t recur and I wish doctors wouldn’t encourage people to believe they are cured when in reality there is just the absence of recurrence. Yes, most early stage patients are treated and never recur but across all lower stages, about 30% do.
Here’s the part you may not want to read. It is out of our control. I have seen major improvements in tx and increased longevity for many which is cause for hope. But the question of why some progress and/or recur, is still without an answer. The same with tx. Why do some do well on a given tx but not others? But the bottom line is that neither diet, exercise nor any other lifestyle habits are a guarantee of anything with bc.Vent away! This is a rough time. Once you have a tx plan in place and a bit of time has passed, it will get easier. Take care
3 -
To all of us who are tired of the “positivity” junk, have at it!
0 -
@Irr I feel you! I had just traveled the whole gastric bypass journey and lost 35kg to be a healthy weight to "live long and healthily with my family" only within 2 months to get this sh*t sandwich served. I also had gone on and off to the doctor for two years prior telling them something wasn't right, I didn't feel right, I believed there was something screwy with my hormones only to hear every time that it was just because I was overweight. So angry at everyone and everything linked to the health profession.
1 -
I am so sorry this happened to you. You did all you were told to and tried hard and it is terrible for you.0 -
0
-
I been looking at this thread and didn't know if I need to be "here". But today I do, I just want to say I hate all these meds that the docs gave us because its a regime that has clinically "proven" to work but kills quality of life (QOL) and mental health. Why can't governments acknowledge that our food supply could have cause all these increases of cancer rate since the introduction of processed food and PFOS and REALLY do something about it? Same on finding ways to clear the plastic and metal contaminations from our soil what our food supply needs.
Why cant someone pay and do clinical research on "natural" stuff that would work and don't kill our quality of life, like honey like tea, etc? Is it because there is no profits to be made if its proven they do work? Why won't anyone research and acknowledge that these drugs could and can and have cause withdrawal symptoms that made our QOL worst than being on the meds? That these drugs could also open doorways to other cancers and other health problems like heart disease? I so regret agreeing to taken lupron as it is killing my "positivity" to fight for me and my family. Just need to vent as I have stop taking more doses and I strongly feel that I am now having withdrawal symptoms. This has been increasing all the negativity and depressive feelings inside me. I need to fight, but this is trying either take the fight or stymied my fight…
So need to vent…
3 -
Zen, Im sorry youre having problems with the meds youve been prescribed. Have you told your MO about those problems? Some people have to try several alternatives before they find one that doesnt have side effects.
People have been getting cancer for centuries, probably since the beginning of human life. There have been health risks throughout history, and when one is eliminated, another comes along. So many people used to die of undetected cancers, or they were found too late for whatever treatments were available at the time. What has really changed is testing to detect diseases, and finding them earlier so more people either recover from cancer or live longer with it - which is part of why the statistics show more cancer patients.
0 -
@zen1028 i started taking bitter apricot seeds which contain b-17. I take 7 in the morning and 7 ar night by using a coffee grinder and grinding them AND some granola and adding it to yogurt! My mother in law is holistic and used those (and a few other things) for her husband who had a large tumor on his lung. Once he started the seeds his tumor was shrinking randomly with NO treatments, (the dr was totally stunned) then started doing radiation. Between the two the tumor shrunk like 97% and he opted against surgery for now. I hadn’t had any treatments yet and my last ct scam showed my tumor shrank 2mm.
I truly believe in these seeds.
0 -
ebfitzy, those seeds are poisonous!
0 -
I've heard the same thing, Alice and ebfitzy. I also know people that are sold on the idea of this being a cure, and they take it. It's the old Laetrile, now referred to as B17 ( not really a B vitamin).
0 -
when you find something that potentially aids in shrinking a tumor, I’ll take my risk! I don’t take it in large enough amounts to have cyanide poisoning anyhow. However, I will be anxious to see my final surgical pathology report as I see often the scans don’t alway have the measurements of the tumor as they show in the pathology report.
0 -
There has always been controversy over unproven cancer treatments, backed up by anecdotes or personal testimony vs data based research. There appears to be no conclusive research data to demonstrate cancer fighting properties of b-17, though there is early research to show it may be helpful for some cancers. There have been no human trials. Personally, I’m a data gal and although anecdotes can open science up to further exploration, the plural of anecdote is not data. However, each of us makes our own choices and decisions. I found this article to be helpful but I can no longer copy/paste things on bco. Let me see how I can paste it here…
What to Know About Vitamin B17By Cathy Wong Updated on April 09, 2024 Medically reviewed by Douglas A. Nelson, MDPrint Table of ContentsVIEW ALL
Vitamin B17 is a commonly used name for a chemical called amygdalin. It is used to make a chemical called laetrile, a compound that some people claim can treat cancer naturally. However, there is little evidence that laetrile works or is safe.
Amygdalin is sourced from certain plant products like apricot pits and bitter almonds. Although they're called "vitamin B17," amygdalin and laetrile are not B vitamins.
This article will define what vitamin B17 is. You will also learn about the claims made about amygdalin and laetrile, as well as the side effects and safety concerns linked to them.
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/493511459-56ec98eb3df78ce5f8357672.jpg)
Morsa Images / Digital Vision / Getty ImagesWhat Are the Different Kinds of Cancer?
What Is Vitamin B17 Used For?
Some people claim that laetrile is an effective natural cancer treatment and that it can also protect against high blood pressure and arthritis. However, little scientific evidence supports any of these uses.
Laetrile is not approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for any use, including as a cancer treatment.1 In fact, in 2019 the FDA issued an import alert for laetrile based on a lack of evidence for its effectiveness and its status as an unapproved drug.2
The National Cancer Institute (NCI) states that there is no evidencethat our bodies need laetrile or that it acts as a vitamin in animals or humans.3
How Vitamin B17 Is Claimed to Work
Claims that vitamin B17 is a natural cancer fighter rests on a mechanism called apoptosis, which is a type of cell death that takes place because a cell is cancerous or infected, or because it is time for new cells to replace it. Apoptosis is one of the ways your body keeps itself healthy.
When you consume amygdalin, your body converts it to cyanide, a chemical that can be lethal if you consume too much of it.4 Some people claim that the small amount of cyanide that laetrile releases causes apoptosis (cell death) in cancer cells. The idea has been promoted for several types of cancer, including:
Some scientific evidence has suggested that laetrile might have some anti-cancer activity, and the findings have renewed interest in its potential effects.
However, the evidence is still preliminary and needs more follow-up research to find out the true effects of laetrile and the potential risks of using it.9
Some people have claimed that cancer is caused by a deficiency of vitamin B17. They argue that consuming laetrile can reverse the deficiency and, in turn, aid with the treatment or prevention of cancer. However, there is no evidence that the body has any known uses for vitamin B17.1
What Are the Different Ways to Treat Cancer?
How Did Laetrile Get Popular?
Laetrile's popularity has been bolstered by conspiracy theories. For decades, people have claimed that laetrile is proven to be safe and effective or that it's the target of a government cover-up of inexpensive cancer treatments.
Despite the FDA ban that went into effect in 1987, many people still take laetrile for cancer. You can get laetrile online and in some stores.
However, the products cannot legally be marketed as a cancer treatment. Still, with false claims all over the internet, people learn about laetrile and seek it out.
The 5 Signs of Medical Quackery
Amygdalin has been used as an anticancer treatment since the mid-1800s. Laetrile was developed during the 1950s as a purportedly non-toxic version of amygdalin. Laetrile has been studied in animals and humans, but it still isn't known if or how well it works against cancer.10
What Research Says About Vitamin B17
Vitamin B17 could be worth studying more, but the research so far has only been done on cells in a petri dish or on animals.
While this type of research can lay the foundation for clinical trials with people, the science is not at that stage yet.
Promising Research
Some research on laetrile and amygdalin as cancer treatments has been published in reputable journals. For example:
- In 2021, researchers said that they uncovered the mechanisms by which amygdalin induces apoptosis: It appeared to increase one cellular protein and reduce another. They also saw other beneficial actions at the cellular level, stating that "amygdalin possesses anticancer properties and induces apoptosis," and that "amygdalin can act as a multifunctional drug in cancer therapeutics."11
- In August 2020, researchers said they demonstrated that amygdalin can kill certain breast cancer cell lines and that amygdalin may prevent those cells from spreading through the body. They also stated that it was not toxic to healthy skin cells.7
- In June 2020, researchers combined amygdalin with an enzyme called beta-glucosidase (ß-glu), which enhances amygdalin activity. They found that the combination led to the death of prostate cancer cells. They also noted that while the treatment had some impact on heart and liver function, it did not appear to cause organ damage.5
Is It Safe to Take Vitamin Supplements During Cancer Treatment?
Inconclusive Evidence
The studies that have been done have not been clear about whether amygdalin could be more effective against certain types of cancer than others.7
The scientists doing the studies have said that there is a need for more research to determine what role amygdalin might play in cancer treatment.128
There are several important considerations for something like laetrile to be an effective cancer treatment, such as:
- It needs to be delivered in appropriate and consistent dosages—which have not yet been established and likely are not possible to get through diet or unregulated commercial products.
- It needs to be able to survive the digestion process and the body's other protective mechanisms until it can get into the bloodstream and tissues in amounts high enough to be therapeutic.
- It should combine with or be broken down by the body's enzymes and other substances in ways that make it useful rather than inactive or harmful.
- How a person responds to it could be influenced by the makeup of their gut microbiota (the mix of bacteria in the digestive system).
Which Foods Fight Lung Cancer?
Criticisms
A review of research evidence on amygdalin published in 2016 highlighted some of the key criticisms that are important to keep in mind.12 For example, the researchers said that:
- Several aspects of amygdalin use "haven't yet been adequately explored, making further investigation necessary to evaluate its actual therapeutic potential."12
- Claims that laetrile or amygdalin can benefit cancer patients are not supported by sound clinical data.13
- None of the previous studies evaluated were high quality enough to meet the reviewers' criteria. They concluded that the consumption of amygdalin carries a considerable risk of serious adverse effects resulting from cyanide poisoning.13 The authors of one review concluded that "due to the risk of cyanide poisoning, the use of laetrile or amygdalin should be discouraged."13
Food Sources of Vitamin B17
If you want to get more amygdalin naturally, there are some food sources to consider adding to your diet. However, it's not a miracle cure. You also need to avoid consuming too much vitamin B17, which can lead to cyanide poisoning.9
Natural sources of amygdalin include:
- Raw almonds14
- Lima beans, mung beans, and butter beans
- Clover
- Sorghum3
- Carrots
- Celery
- Bean sprouts
- Nuts
- Flaxseed15
Although it is technically possible to consume a lethal dose of amygdalin when you eat these foods, you would have to eat much more than most people typically consume in one day.
However, because amygdalin is present in many different foods as well as in drinking water, there is some concern that people who regularly consume these foods could be exposed to concentrations of cyanide that are large enough to cause chronic health problems.14 For this reason, you should consume these foods in moderation.
Can Certain Foods Lower Your Risk of Having Breast Cancer Come Back?
Side Effects and Safety Concerns with Vitamin B17
The B17 products that are commercially available have not been proven to be safe or effective, and they are not regulated.
Many laetrile products that are commercially available in the United States come from Mexico and they are untested. In some cases, contaminated products have been found.9 These products may pose serious threats to your health that go beyond the risks of using laetrile.
Laetrile-containing products have been found to trigger a range of side effects that are similar to those of cyanide poisoning.1 For example, they can cause:
- Blue coloring of the skin
- Confusion
- Nerve damage
- Dizziness
- Droopy upper eyelids
- Headache
- Liver damage
- Low blood pressure
- Nausea and vomiting1
- Fever
- Coma
- Death3
In fact, some people who use vitamin B17 as a cancer treatment die from cyanide toxicity.16
Cyanide poisoning is a life-threatening emergency. If you or someone you know is experiencing these symptoms, you need to get immediate medical help.
Are Vitamins and Supplements a Waste of Money?
In one study, researchers wanted to understand why some people who take amygdalin get cyanide toxicity and others do not. They also wanted to find out why it's more common when amygdalin is consumed compared to when it's injected.17
The researchers discovered that certain gut bacteria have high levels of the enzyme ß-glu, which converts amygdalin to the toxin hydrogen cyanide (HCN).
A person's ß-glu levels can be influenced by several factors, including:
- Taking prebiotics or probiotics
- Other supplements or natural products they use
- Obesity
- Diet
- Age17
Vitamin C may boost the amount of cyanide that laetrile releases in your body. That means that it could raise the risk of toxicity.
Should I Take Vitamin C Supplements?
Alternatives to Vitamin B17
If you're thinking about using vitamin B17 for the prevention or treatment of cancer, you need to know about and understand the potential threats to your health. Talk to your provider about the safest and most effective way to treat or prevent cancer.
There's no proven way to eliminate the risk of all cancers, but there are some practices that we know support your overall health and may help reduce your risk for disease, including cancer.
For example:
- Avoiding smoking and tobacco use
- Getting recommended cancer screenings
- Following a nutritious diet
- Exercising regularly
- Maintaining an optimal weight
Which Cancer Screenings Do I Need?
Summary
Vitamin B17 is sometimes used to describe the chemicals amygdalin and laetrile. Despite the name, these chemicals are not really vitamins. Vitamin B17 is sometimes used as a natural cancer treatment. Research on vitamin B17 is limited, however, and to date there is little evidence that it works against cancer.
Vitamin B17 can be found in foods like raw almonds, flaxseed, bean sprouts, and lima beans. When you eat these foods, the chemical amygdalin is converted to small amounts of the poison cyanide. Although you would have to eat a lot of these foods to consume a lethal dose of cyanide, it is possible that smaller amounts could cause chronic health problems.
How to Protect Yourself From Medical QuackeryStudy: Don't Rely on Amazon for Legitimate Supplements17 Sources
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/CathyWong_660-a204f209ca1f4f36a9fedc478f1e3aae.jpg)
By Cathy Wong
Cathy Wong is a nutritionist and wellness expert. Her work is regularly featured in media such as First For Women, Woman's World, and Natural Health.See Our Editorial ProcessMeet Our Medical Expert BoardShare Feedback
0 - In 2021, researchers said that they uncovered the mechanisms by which amygdalin induces apoptosis: It appeared to increase one cellular protein and reduce another. They also saw other beneficial actions at the cellular level, stating that "amygdalin possesses anticancer properties and induces apoptosis," and that "amygdalin can act as a multifunctional drug in cancer therapeutics."11
-
@ebfitzy, it might be an idea to discuss with your medical team any supplements that you take. While your health decisions are yours and nobody else's, it is only fair to your medical team to let them have all the information about supplements etc to inform their suggested treatment options for you. Just a well-intentioned suggestion.
1 -
Hi Ladies
This is exactly what I am referring to. There is potential but no one moving/funding these to a human trial. In vitro they work, but there is no funding to find out how it could/may work in humans. Without the actual data from a human clinical trial, these will never be proven to work as any cancer fighting arsenal or a hocus pocus wishful thought.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3586458/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9325146/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6503386/
Yes flaxseed contains cyanide as well and to remove it, just need to boil it for 5 min. This is what I been doing and eating with tulang honey and drinking about 2-3 cups of hibiscus tea daily.
I have told my MO about the pain points I am having right now. I am seeing a social worker he has refer me to. I know I need to be where I was before I took this lupron shoot. I can only hope that whatever I am experiencing will go away once this drug leaves my system and won't stay with me forever. There is no guarantee that cancer wont come back as it is derived from our own body cells. Something happened in our bodies that these cells were able to progress to the cancerous state. We need to teach and boost our own bodies to recognize and deal with it as it starts. In my opinion, one of the best way is thru food, a source that we need daily. It's not going to be perfect but it's not as harsh to our bodies like these drugs. I am not saying a NO to any drugs as they have proven to work in it's own way to help us fight. Just need to know why has holistic approaches not been explored as a possibility, but virus like measles and polio has.
0 -
zen,
Short answer… because preliminary trials for some more holistic treatments have not yielded good results so receive no further funding. Over my 12 years as a bc patient, I have seen many promising preliminary research projects, both more holistic as well as conventional, come to nothing.
Your links are not live. I usually repost links for members to make them live but I am having trouble pasting links on bco lately. I’ll give it my best shot.1 -
Sorry, still having “paste “ issues, but only on bco! Maybe someone else can make them live.
One comment on the food topic. Most of us are aware of healthy eating and some of us have really gotten into very managed diets or food protocols. If that feels right to you, then by all means do it however I have yet to see any empirical evidence that this helps in the long run. I do think medical researchers have looked at food and its effect on cancer but have yet to find evidence to support some theories. Yes, chemo and other drugs taken by bc patients are harsh but they have the science behind them and, though not 100% of the time, they work for many whose lives would have otherwise been cut short.As for me, although I went through about 6 months of thinking I could control my bc with diet and supplements, I hated it! My diet was decent to begin with yet I was stage IV de novo. I have since eaten whatever I want , whenever I want. I have had progression free mbc for over 12 years. And this is why anecdotes have limited value because there is simply no way to attribute my longevity to diet or lifestyle. You need far more than testimonials to prove efficacy. I also watched my sister, who lived and ate clean before that was even an expression, be diagnosed with a uterine sarcoma. She passed away within 6 months, angry and bitter that she had been so diligent about what she put in or on her body for her entire adult life, only to be quickly cut down. So yes, I do look at diet and lifestyle as a piece of the puzzle but not the cure.
1 -
@malleemiss251 I have, but stopped taking them for a week before my surgery and have not yet picked anything back up again just yet. I know certain things can interfere with surgery and with treatment so I am being cautious. I was just making a statement of something I’ve been taking for the 2 months waiting for my surgery. And making a statement that my tumor according to imaging atleast, as shrunk 2 mm. I know imaging can be not the best at sizing so I’ll be anxious to see my pathology report.
0 -
Certainly some kinds of diseases can be managed/diminished with proper nutrition or by eliminating certain foods: If you’re anemic, eat red meat and beans. Celiac’s disease? Eliminate gluten. High blood pressure? Eliminate salt from diet. (In fact, in matters of the heart, i.e., cardiovascular disease, a healthy diet is key to prevention). Curb alcohol intake to avoid liver disease. Type 2 diabetes is often controlled by monitoring certain food intake. Scurvy? Eat foods containing Vitamin C. Rickets? Eat foods containing Vitamin D. And so on.
So it’s only logical to me that people would look for a link between diet and cancer: “Can/does food play a role in cancer cure or prevention?” Even tho you can find countless articles about how eating a healthy diet supposedly prevents cancer, it’s not scientific proof. Imo, cancer is its own kind of beast and its prevention and cure will not come through dietary/supplemental intake or abstinence.2 -
I need support. My husband is overwhelmed. In reality he’s doing everything that I always used to do myself. And a little extra taking care of me. I am feeling like I can’t even ask him for help with anything and I’m just a week out from my double mastectomy. He doesn’t want to run my son to ball practice. He won’t even sit down and drink his coffee with me this morning. Instead he just went back to bed. I’m feeling very needy, yet he’s pushing me to do things myself. Probably things I shouldn’t yet be doing. I just needed to put this out there and vent because all I want to do is cry today. I just needed to get this off my chest so I can move on with my day. I have to. I understand where he’s coming from. I really do. But I can’t do anything about it. I can’t drive yet. I can’t do much housework. This just SUCKS. I want to feel good again and get back to my normal routine.
2 -
ebfitzy - I’m sorry that you are having such a rough day. Your feelings and your husbands feeling are normal. You are both going through a life changing event and are overwhelmed and exhausted. Is there anyone you can call on for help - such as a family member or friend. They could help drive your son to his ball practice, make meals, do laundry and tidy up the house.
My thoughts are with you. (((Hugs)))
0 -
ebfitzy, I'm sorry you're going through this.
Carol
0 -
@harley07 and @sunshine99 thanks for your response. Honestly just putting my feelings on the table made me feel better! I know this is a very hard transition for the both of us. That’s why I just needed to vent to feel better. I know it’s a very honest feeling for the both of us. It’s hard for me bc I want to do stuff I normally do by MYSELF, and he wants to not have to do EVERYTHING. I get it. It’s just hard. 🙏 we will get through this!!
0 -
ebfitzy, you are right that this is hard on both parties. I write a blog and in one of them (maybe the most recent one) I talk about "The Other Side" or what it's like for those who love us to watch us go through this.
1 -
Ebfitzy - Just so sorry that you are having such a rough time. I get it, and I agree with Harley that the feelings both you and your husband are having are normal. Take it minute by minute, hour by hour, and day by day, and you will get through it. Sending a hug.
1 -
ebfitzy, I have such compassion for you. I’m sorry for what you’re dealing with on top of healing from a double mastectomy. You are right, though, you will get through this. I have found myself overwhelmed plenty of times. When that happens, I start to reassess what really needs done and what are the true priorities. I do my best to simplify whatever I can. I ask myself what’s necessary and what can wait or what needs eliminated.
Are you able to ask for help from a neighbor, relative or someone from your church (if you attend)? Is there an advocacy program for cancer patients in your area that might offer assistance? The next time your son has ball practice, could you ask another parent taking their child to practice to stop and pick up your son? People are generally glad to help out if they know what you need.
When I need my husband, I tell him , “I need you to be here for me.” or “I need you to help out.” Saying those words gets right to the point. Otherwise, sometimes a husband doesn’t realize the obvious. The other thing I’ve learned is to thank my husband for all the little things he does. When I ask him to close the drapes in the evening and he does, I say thank you. If he gets me a glass of water, or brings me a tissue or feeds the cat, I thank him, and so on.
I hope your recovery goes smoothly and quickly.2 -
@threetree Thank you for the advise! I definitely need to take time out of my day to do some relaxation techniques.
@divinemrsm Right now we do have a friend who's son is on the same ball team as ours, which is a great help. However, last week she did it all…to practice and home. So this week, my husband originally said he'd do to practice if she could bring them home. But he's not keeping up his end of the bargain and I feel it's not right. So to avoid the truth, I asked her if she minded if her and I went to WATCH the boys practice tonight, which I truly enjoy, but I wasn't QUITE ready, but I did it so I didn't have to ask her to do both there and back again simply because my husband's overwhelmed.
I am always very grateful for his help and tell him ALL the time. And as time goes by, I'm trying to do more on my own, but unfortunately still have boundaries. Its nice to have people here to just talk to about this stuff without being judged. I know its not easy being him, either. I might have to start asking my grandma or my parents to assist me with some things. I try not to stress them out too much. My grandma is 80 years old and she already helps SOO much with the horses, and my oldest daughter. She goes to some of my appointments with me, etc. And as far as my parents go, they help with the kids if necessary, but I can't let them see me down. My little brother was only newly 21 when he passed away a year ago from stomach cancer. So I don't want to expose them to negativity in all of this.
THank you all for the great advice and for simply letting me vent. Because I know it goes both ways and its just as hard for my husband. But sometimes just laying it all out there helps to get it out of my system, and the advice and info I was provided by you all was very helpful. xoxo
1 -
ebfitzy,
I can understand where you’re coming from. My hubby had the same thing when I went through my double mastectomy. He was working full-time and trying to take care of me at the same time. His dad and step-monster didn’t help either, they tried to convince him that his helping me wasn’t necessary and I could do everything on my own despite the doctor’s restrictions.I agree with the others that hubby isn’t being helpful at all, but causing more stress by his actions and attitude. You two need to sit down and do what my hubby and I did and figure out a system that works for both of you. And as you get stronger, do what you feel you can and let what you can’t do wait until you can. It might even be a good thing to see if your son can help with little things like a few things around the house that he can do until you feel a little stronger.
0 -
So mad at my younger brother. My mom’s dog has been declining in the last couple of months. She called me a bit ago all upset to tell me that he may be crossing the Rainbow Bridge today as his breathing is erratic. I told her that was how my Sheltie, Jackson went in 2019 and he may not make it to the vet to be put down. While I was on the phone with her, I hear my younger brother spout off “Stop being a baby about it Mom, your dog is old and it’s only a dog, not a human”. My mom has had her dog for several years and he’s been a source of comfort for her because of her health. When I heard what my brother said, I wanted to reach through the phone and smack him! He pretty much said the same thing to me when my cat Charcoal died in 2014 of kidney failure and I was torn up over it and my cat was only 7 when he died.
Am I wrong to feel this way about my brother’s callous attitude.1 -
absolutely NOT!! I remember when Jackson went to the bridge. Your mom’s pup Gives her a reason to get up. If I could smack your bro so far Google couldn’t find him I would
Hugs for mom and pup
0 -
No! Pets are like kids. They are FAMILY MEMBERS. Very inconsiderate for him to say such a hurtful thing during this time.
0
