Diet and Lifestyle
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Back from the road trip and need to cleanse! Kale, chard, black rice salad with roasted Brussels sprouts. Blueberry, raspberry with walnut and flax seed sprinkle. Matcha green tea
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1redgirl, horses are amazing creatures. My children have taken therapeutic riding lesson for 15 years and it has provided many benefits. It is hard to move away from something you love so much. Thank you for sharing your story.
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If you saw my bedroom, it is a shrine to my many horses that I have loved so deeply. I loved horses since I can remember. I remember a pony coming to our house on my 4th birthday. Everyday got a ride. I was in a pink dress as I recall. Did not want to share the pony with anybody. Shortly after, I began riding lessons. My last horse was put down several weeks ago. She was with me for 22 years. Miss her so much. Our farm is empty now. I hope to change that with two little creatures. We shall see.
Just wanted to add some thoughts I have about nutrition and exercise. I have seriously spent hours a day reading articles related to influence diet and exercise may mean regarding reoccurrence. Having worked for big Pharma, I realize studies must get funding. Clinical trials are expensive. Drugs make big Pharma loads of money. Pushing exercise and better nutrition by the medical community does not produce big money for them. Not one medical person I saw spoke to me about my lifestyle. They never mentioned nutrition. It is pretty obvious there is little faith in the medical community where I live that anything matters but drugs. When I decided not to go the conventional route, there was no Plan B for someone like me. I was dismissed.
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ShetlandPony - I've been working on Life Passion lately. I've got the first five of your categories down pretty well but the last five...not so much. Anyway, I'd love it if you'd go over the other nine, maybe one or two at a time, whenever you can. Also, I added that blue zones book to my reading list - I have another friend that is reading it right now and she highly recommended it.
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Nonomimi that looks so healthy and tasty. Love your elegant table setting!
1redgirl it does seem we are on our own with diet and lifestyle. Too many docs offer no advice and some say “just eat as you did before!" This happened to my friend who suffers bad joint pain and is overweight, along with recovering from BC treatment. Tamoxifen made her joint pain worse so the doc told her to go off it. As you found out, I think she would have less pain with a clean diet and weight loss.
It is very frustrating to continually read that “more research is needed “ on the impact of specific foods. However, the general direction is clear. More plants, more exercise, avoid white sugar, limit alcohol.
I am changing my diet to more plant based foods but my DH is concerned about protein, as he is over 70 and osteoporotic with small bones. It does seem older people may need more protein to sustain muscle and bone mass. So I am looking for foods we both can eat.
This meta analysis of protein sources and BC is interesting:
Abstract
“Protein is important to the human body, and different sources of protein may have different effects on the risk of breast cancer. Thus, we conducted a meta-analysis to investigate the association between different dietary protein sources and breast cancer risk. PubMed and several databases were searched until December 2015. Relevant articles were retrieved according to specific searching criteria. Forty-six prospective studies were included....
There was a null association between poultry, fish, egg, nuts, total milk, and whole milk intake and breast cancer risk. Higher total red meat, fresh red meat, and processed meat intake may be risk factors for breast cancer, whereas higher soy food and skim milk intake may reduce the risk of breast cancer.“
http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/8/11/730/htm
More evidence to avoid red meat and eat more soy foods (I know unprocessed soy is best).
To tailor your diet even more, here is an online tool to determine how much protein and other dietary requirements you need for your age, height, weight, activity level.
https://fnic.nal.usda.gov/fnic/dri-calculator/
Shetland, I too am interested in the other areas of your wellness program. Plus I love to see your cheerful sturdy avatar!
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Unfortunately there are many instances where doctors are constrained by their nutritional departments within their hospital from venturing "outside their scope of practice" by giving nutrition advice. This is constraining, infuriating and I am not convinced set up to serve the patients best interest but to protect allied health services domains and ensure they maintain their financial stake in the health care budget.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/peter-brukner/we...
This went on for 2 years because an orthopedic surgeon included nutrition as part of joint management in his consult and follow ups. What is particularly cowardly IMO - he was reported twice anonymously by dietician colleagues, and the only complaint was he does not have a nutrition degree NOT his information is not correct.
My question is why are the nutritionistsnot offering to work constructively with the doctors, particularly in chronic illness - I don't believe they would be told no, you are not welcomed here - in a busy practice their expertise and service would be valued. The clinics that do make it work function great.
😊🌷🐣
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Wildplaces- I agree. I do think that some physicians want to help more than others. Having a nutritionist as part of our medical team would be such a great asset.
A documentary that focuses on the lack of nutritional advice like you mentioned, is What the Health on Netflix. It’s scary stuff. I think I mentioned it before. I highly recommend it.
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I have never looked overweight. However, while I was an overall good eater, I still ate a ton of sweets. I just burned it off working on the farm. If cancer cells only get their energy and ability to live from sugar, I sure helped keep them alive and growing. I was a baker. I could post all the delicious baked goods I made each week. I took pictures. I own a restaurant. Not one doctor ever asked me about my lifestyle. Ever. Nobody warned me that after menopause that muffin around my belly MUST come off ASAP. BTW, for a decade, which was after menopause, I took about 6 Tylenol’s a day. Can you say inflammation? Since my change in diet, not one Tylenol. I simply do not have any joint pain. No headaches which came on if I even got slightly annoyed. I have had backaches due to bulging disk that was injured when I was young. A surgeon once said to me that he would advise surgery only if the pain got so bad a gun to my head was the next step. I swear. Not to go off topic, but I cured myself after decades of pain. GH had an article about the specific pain I had and what to do. It explained that where my pain was located was very hard to get blood flow to capillaries to bring nutrients and heal. At that point I was unable to sleep let alone move. I absolutely could not bend over. The suggestion said I must break a serious sweat and suggested something like step aerobics. I started slowly and carefully and within 6 mos felt pretty good. Eventually was able to go back to riding horses. I never had any pain in the saddle. My back pain has been not bad all these years.0
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Just FYI, in many jurisdictions, nutritionist is not a protected profession - meaning anyone can call themselves one. In my area, Registered Dietitians are the legally protected profession, requiring specific education and licencing exams to ensure a certain level of practice.
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Very good point moth.
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Redgirl, yes, I have also found that diet adjustment can do a lot to reduce pain from inflammation. Ditto for managing back pain with exercise. I have a messed up back with fairly bad scoliosis. The crookedness of my spine began to cause pain and problems when I was about 11. If I keep up my exercise, I can pretty much stay pain-free.
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Redgirl, I'm sorry for the recent loss of your horse.
I too have always been a baker and loved sweets. I find this contradiction hard these days..I love the process of baking soothing, but know that the sugar is not a good choice for me or anyone. When I do bake now (rarely), I try recipes that reduce/replace processed sugar.Dearlife, Yes, dietary needs are so different for each person and can change throughout our lifetimes. Your husband is fortunate to have you helping to address his needs.
Shetland, I too like hearing about your wellness program.
Wildplaces, When I was going through treatment I was never offered a nutritionist consult, but I now see in printed material at my cancer center that it is offered. I think it was then too..available, but you have to know about it and ask about it in order to get the service. So sad & frustrating that providers do not prioritize and automatically implement diet and lifestyle during treatment. Ideally, those who understand that nutrition is outside their scope of practice would refer the patient to a qualified individual. Yes, there are certain states that are highly restrictive/regulated when it comes to providing nutrition advice and I think it's good information for the consumer to know the scope of practice of an person advising them to make changes.
This week I completed my final test in my year long studies as a holistic health coach..yay me!
I had been in communication with the manager of patient education at my cancer center for a month and proposed a class on holistically managing the side effects of treatment and meds. We finally had a conversation yesterday and she does not want me to do that class, but she is trying to create an educational fair about survivor-ship and does want me to take part in that. It's still in the planning stages and will not be till next spring, so I don't yet know what my role will look like, but I'm excited. In the meantime, I'm approaching community ed about the side effect management class. Wishing you all a peaceful holiday.
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That’s so awesome Wildtulip! You’ll be providing such a great gift for survivors, and how fulfilling that must be for you as well. I wish a survivorship plan was one of the first things discussed instead of a side note at the end of a meeting with an Onc.
Happy 4th to everyone! Hope everyone has a nice, relaxing day! 🎆
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Wildtulip - That's awesom. Good luck! I will definitely ask Qs about managing side effects when the time comes. I just started taking Tamo 3 days ago and I don't feel any SE yet.
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WildTulip congrats on finishing your program! Community ed is a great idea and people may be happier going to a class in a community setting than at the Cancer Centre. I always get a sinking feeling when I approach that building.
Momine, I also use exercise to control joint pain in my neck and shoulders from a degenerative disc. If I miss my elliptical session for three or four days, I stiffen up and have to take pain meds. Sometimes my arm will go numb at night too. I am not sure how it works, but I suspect that vigorous exercise flushes out waste products that irritate nerves and stimulates blood flow for healing.Anyway, it works for me and keeps me fit.
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Wildtulip - that is great - congrats - do you know and can you share with us why the reticence on the holistic management of side effects class. Is your relationship strong with your treating oncologist - you can share it with him or her as an idea?
Now that really does depend on the relationship with your onc - I am blessed or got lucky that way - mine understood and respected very early on that I have lots of questions, I like to double check info and am not shy of getting a second oipinion - in my case combining a harsh let's say traditional or western approach with holistic approaches seemed most beneficial - it's why I posted - I find it frustrating that people may see it/things as a choice - one or other - when it is almost certain that treatments can complement and support each other.
I hope that makes some sense.
I also know that this group is positive and supportive and I love being here, still they are many women diagnosed with BC who get very angry at anyone who suggests lifestyle, diet and exercise changes may be beneficial. Scroll throuh the last few pages of the anger thread for a look at another point of view.
Warrior - I watched the Netflix program - very raw - especially about the child obesity epidemic.
DearLife - you always make me smile!
😊🌷🐣
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Wildtulip - congratulations on finishing your program!
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Wildplaces, that thread....choosing to live a healthier, more mindful life now than before my diagnosis is empowering and I wish that for everyone. Hopefully some will choose to see that all choices matter and will stop putting down those that choose a certain lifestyle. No one is more right than another (unless one would want to look at statistics, studies and facts). And that documentary- I agree about the childhood epidemic, very startling. Also though, when they wouldn’t let the interviewer in that hospital because that hospital board didn’t want the Dr. discussing nutrition!!!! Ugh, disturbing!
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This is a little left of our thread topic but I think it's a good talk that addresses the many issues healthcare teams have in delivering health care 😊, in a pure sense her question addresses - can these teams deliver holistic care
#fauxfullscreen
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Wildtulip - Congrats on your Holistic Coach final exam! We really need more holistic coaches.
I got the "How Not to Die" book from the library and have been reading different parts of it (rather than each page, cover to cover). I was a little disappointed in the Breast Cancer chapter because he says essentially, the risk is so high for survivors. Now that may certainly be true, but it wasn't what I wanted to hear. But it does fall in line with the thinking that preventing a recurrence is a whole new ballgame from preventing a first cancer. So it has encouraged me to adopt a vegan diet. I haven't told my husband, yet. I need to read some more about the plant-based diet and how I can prepare dinners that will be acceptable to him, too. It's also a little scary to do this because while I can control my environment at home, I cannot completely control it when we go on vacation. I have been to some restaurants where the salads they offer are nothing more than iceburg lettuce and a couple of tomatoes. So I think I have to just take this one day at a time and focus on that because I'm home 90% of the time.
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GoKale - fwiw, it's getting easier & easier to eat plant based while out or travelling. There are entire plant based restaurants popping up in major cities, and in other places, most vegans to do a thing called 'making a meal of the sides' - usually the sides and vegetables are vegan or can be veganized. At nicer restaurants with proper chefs, if you call ahead & ask them if they can prepare a vegan meal, you often end up with a very fancy & interesting entree. We have done this & chefs often enjoy the challenge and prepare something that is unique & everyone at the table is jealous... Ototh, there have been a few times where the only thing avail was fries LOL (in Canada they tend to be fried in veg oil in separate fryers; in other countries, sometimes even the fries aren't vegan as they have tallow or lard in the oil & they fry other stuff in the same fryers...)
I try to keep healthy snacks in my bag and car & I eat before or after going to places where I think there might not be anything available if it's a social event I can't get out of. Just smile, sip your drink and change the subject when people ask why you're not eating. And the more people ask for vegan meals in restaurants, the more restaurants will put things on the menu. Demand is driving the change.
The vegan burger Beyond Meat is expanding quickly & can be found in many restaurants and cafeterias now. https://www.livekindly.co/vegan-beyond-burger-1000... Not necessarily the healthiest plant based option, I admit, but eating out healthy is hard to do anyway.There's also a great web directory of veg restaurants & they have an app you can get on your phone. It's called Happy Cow and it will tell you what restaurants around you have vegan or vegetarian options. https://www.happycow.net/mobile
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GoKale - eating vegan on vacation is not that difficult inside the US, just google vegan restaurants before you go on vacation and star the places that look good on google maps so you can find them when you get where you're going. Outside the US it's a little more difficult depending on where you go. If I'm going somewhere that has few vegan options, I rent a place with a kitchen and plan to cook for myself. I was doing this long before I went vegan because I just can't live on a diet of nachos and pizza for a week. You might want to pack some spices if you're planning to cook, I usually mix a few packets of spices so I can just dump them into a pot of beans or stew when I get there. Things are getting better these days though in terms of vegan offerings. Even in Utila and the mountains of Belize I was able to find some vegan meals out.
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GoKale- We use the app HappyCow to look up vegan or vegan friendly restaurants when traveling. Every restaurant has vegetables that can be made with olive oil and marinara sauce is usually vegan. That’s sooo awesome about going vegan. Feel free to PM me if you’d like any recipes or anything. Yay!!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👍🏻
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Hi everyone, thank you for the congrats and encouragement!
Nonomimi, I'm happy to answer Q's that come up. BCO and those who post on the threads are very knowledgeable/experienced too. My hope is to eventually to 1:1 coaching with patients from DX through treatment, and beyond. I find Dr's easily tell patients what to do (eat better, exercise, etc), but not how to implement changes. That's where I hope to have a role.
Gokale, I've been slowly changing my food choices. For me it's not realistic to go completely vegan overnight. Maybe think of it as a process, not a destination.
Moth, that's for the great vegan resources.
Wildplaces, I didn't watch all that video yet, but definitely some truth to it. The anger thread makes me sad. Not because of the anger, as I believe everyone is entitled to their feelings. I also believe, though, in self improvement and making good choices. I appreciate people who choose to care about their health and well being. My MO is very kind, and also very scientific (seems to be up on the latest studies). He is the head of oncology at my cancer center, and I ended up with him after my original one quit. I feel we have a good relationship, but I'm not convinced he believes in complementary therapies, whereas I do. I'm very comfortable with Dr's/health care providers, and I don't hesitate to seek out what I need. (Like acupuncture for my neuropathy.) A few months ago I did talk to my MO about doing some volunteer health coaching at my cancer center (I'm allowed to coach 6 mo into school program), and he directed me to volunteer services. Volunteer services explained they didn't have a position for what I was describing, so then I decided to develop a class and go through patient education. Just to get connected with the manager of pt ed took a month. She didn't really give me a reason for not wanting to do the side effect management class, but did say that a panel of people decide every 6 months what classes will be offered. It's such a big company!! The way I see it..their loss. I'm disappointed, but moving on. As DearLife said, community ed may be a more comfortable environment anyway.
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I love both the anger thread and this thread.
I think it is possible to do the right things and still have room for a bit of a rant about doing them.
Having been a tee-totalling, fitness-following, veggie-valuing, fruit-favouring, non-drinking, non-smoking, stress-supplanter all my life, I sometimes wonder why many of my friends, who have made their major four food groups sugar, alcohol, caffeine and chocolate, are totally fine at their annual check-ups! I feel that I am allowed to wonder (to myself) if I have denied myself some of life's little pleasures for a bit too long....and to what end?
just my thoughts...
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Prelude, I see room for both too. But for me, it’s never been about a she said she said thing between the threads. What’s bothered me was the fact that some would choose to put others down for their decisions or lifestyle choices. This thread is, has, and will be about how to positively impact ones diet and lifestyle and I think it’s just strange that some people would call out specific diet/lifestyle choices that we’ve discussed here or in one other thread and put them down. I mean we get it, you don’t agree, but there’s no need for rudeness. Anyway....let’s just choose to rise above and continue onward and upward 🌈
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Yes, it's one thing to rant "that it's not fair!!! I did everything right & still here I am. It's just not FAIR!" I totally get that. I've done my share of foot stomping on that theme.
It's the denigrating and mocking of others and the choices and decisions they're making - that is just not kind.0 -
we are all in agreement ladies 🎉.
now if only i could decide whether my sin for the day should be chocolate cake or french fries...they say sugar feeds cancer but fries... don't...? 😂oh boy.
anyway I am grateful for my very first world problems 🙏😊
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GoKale, go to Greece, and eating veggie is generally easy.
DearLife, that might be part of the exercise equation. The way it was explained to me (by doctors) is that any imperfection on the spine will lead to the muscles trying to compensate. The stronger the muscles, the better they can keep the spine staple. The first doc I saw, back when I was 19, kindly asked me how I expected all those bones to hang together with no muscles to support them
I was never athletic as a child (suck big-time at sports) and I have low muscle mass from nature, coupled with long, light bones. So I have to work at it.0
