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Jane McLelland protocol / COC protocol for STAGE IV members ONLY

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  • Frisky
    Frisky Member Posts: 1,686
    edited December 2019
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    wouldn't that be great? Husband you have a great idea! Map every cancer based on their preferred pathways and corresponding off label medications and supplements!

    Nicole...it was five pm by the time I was out of the hospital....the Italian delicatessen had no fresh bread remaining so I left...I get off the subway at union square and the aroma of freshly baked focaccia bread is everywhere...it's intoxicating....Like a dog, I sniff my way up the street in the direction of a nearby bakery...I was right...huge trays of focaccia bread are on display in the back and they look really good....I wait wait and wait but everyone behind the counter is busy....I lose my patience and leave...get home and in the next two minutes I make myself a sandwich with toasted sourdough bread, fresh mozzarella cheese and a roasted pepper salad..no salami....it was all over in two minutes I was so famished....I had not eaten in 12 hours...now I'm happily warm under the covers, already in bed, resting my weary head



  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited December 2019
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    5 hours..sounds like what I am about to head into...the CT scan broke and now I have to go to the hospital across the street for one of thr scans... and so it begins.

  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited December 2019
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    On of the women that had progression doing IV C and chemo with Doxy I found her post it spread spine, lung liver (colon) ***she wrote it just like that so not sure where her primary was. Anyway someone wrote this response:

    that's probably because ... IVC blocks glucose, pushing glutamine cancer to be more aggressive. You have to block the glutamine pathway with doxy or niclosamide while on IVC. Page 370 of Jane's book.

    And in lies the problem and CONFLICTING INFO...because jane backpedalled on this on June 29th saying:in response to a thread created by Denise Haire, Jane McLelland wrote: "I recently came across this article which makes me concerned now about adding doxy to a kill phase. I am thinking MBZ best with high dose IVC and Doxy best during starve phase only (liposomal vit C).

    You need to optimise H2O2 if you're going to do it.

    I don't understand exactly what that means...but thought it was interesting what the girl said about IVC block glucose pushing glutamine cancer to be more aggressive.... The problem for me is...how do I know that my cancer is not glutamine driven and wont become more aggressive?? SOOOO many studies showing the Doxy with the IVC is amazing for Kill phase but then Jane saying don't do that because you need to optimize H2O2.....

  • Frisky
    Frisky Member Posts: 1,686
    edited December 2019
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    I agree it's all very confusing Nicole, I can't say I understand half of it...

    I only know that MD Siegfried recomandations for blocking glutamine are impossibile to follow...the truth is that blocking everything at the same time would take care of not knowing what's driving a particular cancer...but following the protocols is another matter...therefore the COC is there to save the day...

    Didn't you consult with them? I would follow what they recommend...Because they, more than any one else, might know how to make it all work....

  • husband11
    husband11 Member Posts: 1,287
    edited December 2019
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    That sounds very puzzling and speculative. So if I have the hypothesis stated correctly, they are saying:

    - this cancer is fed by glutamine (and presumably also glucose)

    -when you block the glucose, the cancer becomes more aggressive.

    So, for a glutamine fueled cancer, feeing it glucose keeps it less aggressive? I wonder how that works. Anything is possible, but I would like to hear an explanation why cutting off one of two sources of fuel would make the cancer more aggressive. So glucose pacifies the cancer?

  • Frisky
    Frisky Member Posts: 1,686
    edited December 2019
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    What we know from conventional therapies is that the treatment fails when the cancer has figured out a way around the blockade the medication had created...

    Since cancer cells can use fats, sugars, and glutamine for energy, of course blocking one pathway would make those cancer cells very aggressive in another pathway...

    Therefore the need to block all pathways at the same time...this is how far my brain will take me tonight...

  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited December 2019
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    But what confuses me the most is what jane says about the H202 how do we "optimize" H202??? No one knows..not even on FB...

    BTW.... I LOVE MY MO you all know this...well last night I messaged her asking for the results of the 1 scan (it's done on the same floor as her office) I didn't hear anything today so I called and left a voice mail with the nurse on the message it said "leave your name Date of Birth and what test you had and when and the NURSE will call you back with the results"... well the nurse calls me back this is for the CT Bone scan...she says that the Dr. saw my message and was doing hospital rounds until 12 and now is with patients but that she will call me with the results today. She never called :(:( I know everyone is thinking no news good news...but Im thinking if everything was just the same no changes she would have just told the nurse to let me know "no changes looks the same"...but she didn't. I guess she got so busy and forgot to call me :(

  • Frisky
    Frisky Member Posts: 1,686
    edited December 2019
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    She might not have looked at the report yet, Nicole, and it's Friday night...even mo's have the right to have a few drink at the bar...my, guess is she will call you sometime tomorrow.... no point worrying till you really have to...

    Bad news tend to get communicated swiftly...


  • BevJen
    BevJen Member Posts: 2,341
    edited December 2019
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    Nicole,

    I hope you get the call from your MO. I'm sure she just was caught up today, and perhaps she is waiting until you have your CT scan tomorrow. Good luck with the results on both.

    I found this article about IV C from 2018 -- not sure it answers your question, but from what I can glean, the key to optimizing hydrogen peroxide seems to be something to do with the dosing of the IVC?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC61155...


  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited December 2019
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    The doctor already has the results...I guess I didn't relay that well in my post. The nurse said the doctor saw my message earlier and will call me with the results. I guess Tuesday I will get them all...

    Thanks Bev I will read that tomorrow...hopefully its easy to understand my brain is on overload.

  • JFL
    JFL Member Posts: 1,373
    edited December 2019
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    Nicole, the nurse may be able to relay bloodwork or another test that is black and white but I don’t think nurses ever interpret/communicate scan results. I do agree that bad news is usually given swiftly although it is possible the MO just dropped the ball today. Very rough for you to have to wait until Tuesday.

  • husband11
    husband11 Member Posts: 1,287
    edited December 2019
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    I thought the high dose iv vit c was simply providing a high enough dose that the vit c no longer acts like an antioxidant in the cancer cells, but instead reaches a concentration that it produces sufficient hydrogen peroxide h202 to kill the cancer cells. Perhaps its also a function of low blood flow in tumors that the h202 can build up to lethal levels, yet not affect healthy tissue.

  • BevJen
    BevJen Member Posts: 2,341
    edited December 2019
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    Husband,

    You are WAY ahead of me here. Just posted the article for information purposes

  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited December 2019
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    Husband not sure... I think its all still out there...no one freakin knows.... I am still torn on whether to take the Doxy and IVC or the Medbedazole and IVC.... and here is some new stuff about it from FB...one thing from Jane....

    Jane says: One of the main reasons to take doxy is it's MMP-9 inhibiting effects. I had this covered by dipyridamole. Doxy also affects OXPHOS which is also covered by metformin (although doxy enhances this, but so does berberine and propranolol).

    and a poster says:

    I would be cautious with doxy. It is a mito toxin basically, a potent inhibitor of mitochondrial biogenesis. Which means very simplistically that it weakens everything, from muscle power to liver function to response of immune cells. Perhaps a poor choice on.top of chemo?




  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited December 2019
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    Also want to mention reference Artemisinin :

    This drug basically does a lot of what Fenben or Mebedazole does from what I am reading in this that a FB poster posted...so to me I would think if you are doing Mebedazole or Fenben you wouldn't need Artemisinin for a kill phase....

    Artemisinin

    Class

    Sesquiterpene with an endoperoxide moeity

    Antiparasitic Activity

    Active against all human malarial parasites, including multi-drug resistant Plasmodium falciparum strains.

    Mechanism of Action

    Several proposed including the production of free radicals, other reactive metabolites, and altered membrane transport properties of membranes which may inhibit nutrient flow to the parasite.

    Pharmacodynamics

    No data available

    Pharmacokinetics

    Single dose studies of 500mg in adult patients: Cmax: 428 mcg/L; Half-life: 2.5 hours; Table 1

    Adverse Effects

    Cardiac: QTc prolongation, bradycardia

    Dosage

    The conventional dosage regimen for orally administered Artemisinin is 500-1000 mg (10-20 mg/kg) on the first day, followed by 500 mg daily for 4 days.

    Artemisinin suppositories have been given to patients with severe falciparum malaria, at doses of 600-1200 mg initially, followed by 400-600 mg 4 h later and 400-800 mg daily for 3 days.

    Generally, mefloquine 15-25 mg/kg is given 24-72 h after commencement of Artemisinin therapy.

    Disease state based dosing:

    No data available

    Contraindications/Warnings/Precautions

    No data available

    Drug Interactions

    No data available


    Brand names/Manufacturer

    Brand names and manufacturer are not available. Below are listed synonyms of Artemisinin:

    Arteannuin; Artemisinina; Artemisinine; Artemisininum; Huanghuahaosu; Qinghaosu.


    **** However the guy on FB that posted all the info on this also says:Artemisinin is not soluble in water and limited in oil. It is 100% soluble in alcohol and DMSO.

  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited December 2019
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    Ok well Ive decided finally....after reading the following I will not be doing the doxy with IVC..just the medbedazole I guess...

    during the reaction Reactive oxygen species are produced (ROS) which cause apoptosis. Doxycycline has the ability to scavenge the ROS and reduce the oxidative stress. This is bad we want the most oxidative stress possible to kill the cancer cells.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6384696/?fbclid=IwAR2cbJ1NuIsYt-mYTvrzLoC5Gr3pvG_gddOtPIRv6nqJ6QmeBH3nvebQLG4


  • snooky1954
    snooky1954 Member Posts: 850
    edited December 2019
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    Nichole, I took Artemisnin for 4 or 5 months. Whether it worked to delay progress I'll never know. For the first year after diagnosis I took no medical treatment except diet change( went total vegan over night.) and several herbals and vitamins. !I felt like a million bucks! No depression, no anxiety full of life and energy. I was also going under the assumption that cancer is a fungus. And I did find out that I had ALOT of intensional (sp)fungus issues. So I did a lot of cleanses.

    The whole time my breast tumor grew just 1/2 a cm. No METS. But then my kids intervened, told me I was letting myself die and begged me to go into treatment. Four mos of being in "treatment" left me with bone mets and lung met THAT had not shown on any scans before that.

    I'm not saying would not have happened anyway but I'll never really know. But I do know that my emotions are a mess because I too went against what I believed in.

    I'm not just talking off the top of my head here, I researched, I studied and I had 100% confidence in what I was doing on my own. Damn, I miss that self-confidence.

    But, you can't go back in time....so like Frisky said "it is what it is"

  • snooky1954
    snooky1954 Member Posts: 850
    edited December 2019
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    Nichole The research on Art was done by a lady in china. Google Art and cancer on the net. Her story is totally believable and documented by science.

  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited December 2019
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    Snooky what lady are you talking about and why would I google it I am agreeing that Artemisinin is something beneficial....

    Also...if you felt great being vegan why not do that now? If you think you cancer grew slower then as well why not go back to that protocol? Glad you felt good with that. I felt awful when I cut out all carbs and sugar ...as soon as I added low carbs back in I felt much better.

  • snooky1954
    snooky1954 Member Posts: 850
    edited December 2019
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    Nichole, I just thought that the background research to Art and the herbalist lady from China who proved this worked would interest you. That's all. ahhh, the vegan diet. When the doctors insisted on IV chemo (only second line treatment ) I knew I'd need a lot of protein to get through it. So I brought back in red meat so the chemo wouldn't screw with blood counts too much. Now I'm on Zeloda and it's the same situation. Plus vegan is very expensive. I have to be non GMO, no spraying with herbicides, or insecticides. And grown in good soil. The chemo, taxol, depressed me so much, and the fact that I let them do it, just I don't know...I didn't care what I ate. I need an attitude adjustment. That positive attitude that I had for so long just up and left.


  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited December 2019
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    Yes I saw the stuff the woman in China said about it. Didn't know thats what you meant. :)

  • husband11
    husband11 Member Posts: 1,287
    edited December 2019
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    Ciaci and Curious over on the Ibrance thread have both posted about a negative interaction between atorvastatin and ibrance. Ciaci was crippled up by it, and had to reduce her atorvastatin to every second day. Curious suffered a frozen shoulder. Atorvastatin is prescribed as part of COC protocol.

  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited December 2019
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    Husband Thanks for the info...I take lovastatin low dose..I just started it like 2 weeks or 3 weeks ago at first I took it every other day...now I do almost everyday...but I am no longer on ibrance..

  • husband11
    husband11 Member Posts: 1,287
    edited December 2019
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    The drug interaction warnings, warn that ibrance could reduce the effectiveness of a statin, but they don't say that serious interaction is common. It sounds like its something to carefully watch out for, and take corrective action if it emerges.

  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited December 2019
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    Will do!!! Thanks!

  • Frisky
    Frisky Member Posts: 1,686
    edited December 2019
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    Nicole, did your MO called you back about the tests? You've been quiet about the results...

  • ShetlandPony
    ShetlandPony Member Posts: 3,063
    edited December 2019
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    The CA in CA 27.29 or CA 15-3 stands for Cancer Antigen. So yes, that’s tumor markers.

  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited December 2019
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    Frisky you literally just READ MY MIND...I am starting to feel so down...NOTHING YET... I sent a message or 2 in the portal Friday and Saturday...and I left a voice mail on the nurses line today...nothing??? I know they have the results because they told me they would be available in 24 hours...and the one CT was on the 4th the other was Saturday.... I just don't get it.

  • Frisky
    Frisky Member Posts: 1,686
    edited December 2019
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    There's couple possibilities...your MO is on her way to San Antonio and might not be in a position to make phone calls if she's flying and dealing with all the various arrangements....

    The second and more likely, there's nothing dreadful to report, and no ones available to post or answer phones...the nurses now have to see patients..while she's gone

    Thirdly, maybe there's a discrepancy between the two scans that needs to be ironed out by the radiologists and she simply is not sure of what's up...I think I like this hypothesis more than the others...

    I would recommend you wait till the morning to call her office again...if it was really bad, someone would have called you already to discuss the next treatment, although you have barely started the current one, which I understand you don’t like a bit...

    If it helps, I don’t like any of them...


  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited December 2019
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    Thanks..shes in the office not in San Antonio.

    My husband wanted me to call back and not call the nurses line (bc that is a just a voice mail line) but call the office so I did...I got one of the nurses she did say they got my messages and that both results are in and the doctor has them. She believe that the head nurse told her that my Dr. said she is going to call me tonight when she is done seeing patients...(again) so I just said ok...I'll wait.. I just hope she remembers I really love her and know she is so busy I just hope she remembers today.

    Thanks for checking on me :)