Ringworm drug for dogs (Fenbendazole) might also cure cancer
Comments
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Santabarbarian: what does your integrative MO think about fruits? Is there any allowed? I read so many contradictory things about the sugar present in the fruit ... I think I would miss my green apples forever ...
Goldie: I'm doing fine with rads. #10 done, 15 regular and 8 boost left. I'm tired, but you had already warned me about it. Tamoxifen sucks...
I wish that you, Frisky, Snooky, JFL, Santa, Simone, Nicole, Anotherone, Husband's wife and the other friends here are doing well. HUGS ❤❤❤
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thank you Sonia, I wish the same to you and all the usual suspects...
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Re fruit:
Dr Block says yes to fruits-- he wants whole organic produce, nuts, seeds, non-processed nutritive carbs like quinoa and lentils, and deep sea wild caught fish to be the bulk of the diet. Fruit is ok but, not too much, because of the sugar. Fruit choices can be weighted towards lower glycemic & cancer-active fruits like berries. I believe he was ok with ~1-2 servings of fruits per day and unlimited veggies. (Lower glycemic fruits include stone fruits and Kiwi). Under 20% of calories from fat. Avoiding animal foods. Tons of exercise. Keep dairy organic and very small amounts. One egg yolk max per week but whites ok (choline in egg yolks). All of this info is scientifically validated for lower recurrence rates.
Dr Block has a book "Life Over Cancer" for more detail.
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Yes Sonia, we wish the same for you and everyone on these boards/threads.
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Thanks Santa, that diet sounds like heaven to me. I went to an integrative center for the vit. C intravenous, but they was prescribed me a keto diet that was basically eggs, cream, meat, and very little vegetables. No fruit! I wanted to cry. I had to abandon it after having paid a small fortune for that treatment, since I was injected with insulin before intravenous vit.C (I am not diabetic) I had to paid for the full treatment but I could only had a few IV, because I used to get out of there very sick and almost couldn't get to my house ...
The only other integrative center I know has a therapy that consists simply of snake poison and zinc, manganese and selenium supplements. As you will see, here in the third world we don't have many options😪
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thank you Santa for describing diet recommended. I must say up to now it is the most coherent way of eating I came across in this cancer journey - neither complete keto nor vegan make sense to me.
Still requires sacrifices but at least I would not feel that I am sacrificing and doing it wrong meanwhile.
Yndorian , with all the info we have from this site we may just build our own plan with no need for any clinics - well , may be some , for implementing things like vit C. Could not you have it without insulin there or you did not know different back then and not considering it now ?
Thank you for your good wishes, I have port placement planned on Monday and first infusion on Tuesday- fingers crossed no mishaps.
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I was actually in ketosis just by eating lightly prior to chemo, mostly vegetables + nuts/ oils, & v low protein (fish). Which I did prior to chemo (Fasting Mimicking Diet). Then I would eat nutrient dense carbs and higher protein and fruit when I came out of the 5 day fasting mimicking cycle (re-feed is important to have balanced nutrition & to boost the immune system).
Ketosis can work well against some cancers but 1. people can't eat that way long term. and 2. You can get to ketosis state with fasting or fasting-mimicking and then re feed in balanced diet, hopefully the same result (from ketosis stressing the cancer) and better long term health.
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Santa, thanks for your detailed explanation. I do understand your point better now. How much does Dr. Block charge for appointments, if you don't mind me asking?
For those of you doing the COC protocol, would you provide some info about your experience and the costs to do this? I understand that the COC does virtual visits. Can one do the entire process virtually? What are the costs associated consulting with the COC? Do they write in prescriptions to one's local pharmacy (for metformin or mebendazole, for example)?
I hope all of you - Sonia, Frisky, Goldie, Anotherone, Santa and anyone else I missed - are having a great, restful weekend!
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Anotherone, I am implementing my own plan ... if it works, I will patent it! LOL
I will take again oral Vit.C in large doses when I finish rads (the ghost of diarrhea is still arround and I don't want to have an accident😊)
HUGS
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Santa, can you write a few recipes that you use or direct me somewhere - I have little imagination with cooking using mostly veggies .
JFL , I done the whole process remotely. £400 consultation and then £80 either /month or per quote ( likely latter) for medication. Medication sent in a parcel to my home.
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Thank you Sonia. Glad to hear you are handling the rads.
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Hi JFL,
I'm not sure if you are in the US. But everything is done virtually. The initial visit with a nurse is free. Then if you want to proceed it is $800 for an appointment with the MO. It's $180 for a 3 month supply which is delivered to your doorstep. You will need to meet with the MO every 3 months to get a script for the next 3 months. I am not sure but I think the subsequent meetings with the MO are around $250.
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JFL. I spoke with them 2 weeks ago here is what the cost was for me:
First full phone appoint is $800.00
The pharmacy in Utah provides all meds and cannot go through insurance bc the mebedazole is compounded and insurance will not cover it. They cover 3 months of meds all for $180.00 they said they will not prescribe ANY of the meds to ones own pharmacy.
After 3 months you have to speak to the MO for consult and check in and that is $295.00
So basically every 3 months you will pay $475.00 for meds and appointment.
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A multi part consultation w review of charts and imaging, and specific recommendations for diet, supplements, chemo, exercise, mental well being.... I think 4 total calls, including one hour on the phone w Dr Block himself-- $1800.
Thereafter, you can have a phone consult for I believe $150 for 15 mins (for example, to ask the sort of questions that are frequently cropping up in this thread... is it the E bugging my liver? Is it a die off? What is the max dosage? etc). I did call him once, to report my pCR, to thank him, and to ask some questions about my plans for rads. He was genuinely (like a little kid level-) thrilled at my outcome and that I stuck to the regime. (Diet/ supplements & interval training, & pilates/yoga).
The Block Center impressed me also because they made no effort to upsell me anything.... no proprietary brands of vitamins; you can order other stuff from Amazon per their specs... And I got the feeling of very deep caring from the whole team. If I have a recurrence I would be likely to go to him.
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VEGGIE go to dishes:
1. I love "Fried rice"... I use brown rice, farro, or quinoa -- and go light on the rice, heavy on veggies. (Can just do veggies as stir fry and skip rice altogether too). I use the best anti cancer veggies that I like... like fresh (peeled; diced or grated) ginger root, garlic, onion or any alliums, any mushrooms, any cruciferous vegs (cabbages, bok choy, broccoli etc), any peppers or hot peppers, & maybe curry cumin tumeric -- or other beneficial spices. (Plus lots of leafy greens, this is the list of best anticancer foods, pretty much.) Sautee the veggies in olive oil, sesame oil, or ghee till golden brown, then add a scoop of pre-cooked rice to the veggies and sautee together till warm. Push to sides of pan to create an empty spot in the middle. Scramble an egg into this well and then when it is nearly set stir it into whole dish and let it finish cooking that way. Garnish with chopped almonds, a ton of cilantro, lemon, plain yogurt. and diced scallion.
2. Sauteed Roasted or grilled eggplant. Slice in rounds, salt them, and then set on paper towels to "sweat" and dab them dry to leach the bitterness. Marinade in olive oil and fresh garlic or make them into a tomato based stew/ ratatouille. Can grill serve w buratta, tomato and basil once in a while. ;-) A "meaty" veggie. Can be an add in to a marinara.
3. Mixed Roasted veggies. I never boil or steam veggies - I roast. Brussell sprouts, leeks, maui onion, zucchini, all much better this way. Cube if needed, drizzle w olive oil and stud w garlic cloves, set in glass pan in oven at 350 for 20 mins or so (checking). Whole baked sweet potato or beets: roast in skin 450 for 40 mins or so.
4. Cooked lentils, beans, legumes. Lentils are fast to make and can sit in fridge... They are fantastic whizzed into some bone broth as a creamy soup, mashed, or served cold in a salad w greens, vinaigrette & feta cheese. High protein/good fiber beneficial carb.
5. Sprouts are highly nutritions. Broccoli and others. You can do them at home (though I buy mine). All my green salads get microgreens or sprouts.
6: "Keto lasagne" -- substitute very thin-sliced long zucchini instead of pasta "noodles." Cut thinnnnn, and then blanch briefly in boliing water -- then use like you would a pasta noodle making a lasagne, and with marinara and ricotta as w normal lasagne. A treat! Can do "zoodles" (spiralized zucchini) w pesto for another great all veggie meal.
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thank you Santa. May do a go to list of recipes from what you mentioned, add about some that I like and may be some other ideas , print it out and stick somewhere in the kitchen.
Just have to get used to combinations of flavours - like pulses and feta I both like but never thought of putting them together , they would actually go well together.
I have not even heard about cilantro , farro, scallion. Shall Google them. Marinara - I guess it is what I know as a white sauce ..
Yogurt, feta, ricotta , ghee - I guess Dr.Block does not mind dairy in small quantities , right? And he is ok with bone broth?
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Ok with bone broth but not super ok with dairy. Must be organic and not too frequent.
Marinara is a normal tomato sauce, homemade is easy & no sugar.
I eat very small amounts of dairy. I keep fat well under 20% of calories with mostly using fish, with just sprinkles of meat, chicken, & dairy for flavor. Like a pound of salad might have 2 or 3 oz of meat or dairy in it. If I buy a normal sized 10 oz steak I could eat three servings of meat from that... I get a maybe one steak a month.
Get the book for more details! Life Over Cancer.
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thank you will do. It will be my fifth book on the cancer this time round:).
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Santa thanks for all that info and the great recipes
Where are your mets? Bone or Organ? How long have you been Stage 4 did you eat like this before you were Stage 4 or only after you were diagnosed?0 -
I am not stage 4 but as I had advanced TNBC I feel it's wise to think ahead, just in case. I am tempted to do Fen Ben or COC to AVOID becoming stage 4. I wonder if the stem cells are easier to zap *before* they come back as a recurrence? I am basically doing Jane McClelland w metformin my only prescription and the rest of it OTC supplements.
I ate decently before-- but w more junk, chips, sugar, & booze included. I basically cleaned up all that and reduced my animal foods to about 1/2 or 1/3 of before. I love veggie eating for the most part. I live in an area with abundant produce and local farms.
When I get hungry I think "what 3-4 vegetables or fruits shall I eat now?" I do a lot of salads w hearty ingredients and bold colors. Vegetable stews and soups are really easy and healthy too. I am about 30 lbs thinner than when I was diagnosed. During treatment I was much more limited as to sugar, fruit, and carby vegetables. Now I am looser as to fruit ad nutritious carbs like beans, etc. I still avoid bread, potatoes and white processed anything.
Anti cancer eating is a lot harder in remote areas distant from farms or in 'food deserts.'
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I apologize.... you know, I never pay attention to the forum, but rather the title of the thread.... it seems like there are a lot of people interested in this thread and others who comment and are not stage 4, so I did not notice. I apologize if I am in the wrong place. Its a very interesting subject to me!
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I noticed it before , Santa, that you do not have Mets. The same as I noticed it about Yndorian. And that it was against the rules. I do not mind as your contributions are valuable and as you have not written anything that grated on me. Besides as you rightly say it is a specific topic - if there is no topic like this discussed in detail elsewhere it seems a bit silly not to participate . Sometimes other stages in some aspects of treatment or outlook or history can be similar to stage 4 so we can ve the same for the purpose of that discussion.
I think us stage 4 are in a different boat compared to other stages so we easily become tetchy and a lot of stuff that people say which is not rude and pretty normal can grate on us quite badly . Its like a girl in her 20th on a course who I overheard making remarks on the lines of " we are all going to die " in a debate with our tutor. I am in my 40s and the tutor is in his 60s. I recoiled at that remark thinking how insensitive it was and the tutor responded " yes but that moment is way closer for me than it is for you". A simple true statement in that context was not welcomed as it was said without understanding. Have not noticed anything that would grate on me from you , Santa.
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like Anotherone, I too welcome everyone interested in these complementary protocols to partecipate in the discussions....we need to support each other's efforts, and share our experiences to better understand how to fight and survive this disease..
The truth is that there's many ways to go...my first MO, a renowned alternative oncologist to the stars, died two months after I met him from an heart attack!! He was younger than I.
I'm sure he never saw that coming when he initially told me that he might not be able to help me, too many metastasis...
I bet millions of unsuspecting healthy young and old people have already died since my diagnosis....things are seldom what they seem...
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Ha, I had even noticed that this was for stage IV only. I welcome anyone, stage IV or not, no one here has been insensitive at all. I think maybe the OP put it there not really knowing that others not stage IV would be interested.
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I think the OP put it here because we were going to discuss it from the same perspective as op had - someone who is not going to be cured by conventional medicine while for other stages the likelihood is they are going to live their normal lifespan without need to experiment on themselves. I personally very rarely post something outside of this board because me being stage 4 is a so huge factor it affects take on every subject and I can not be on the same page as others. The other day someone with earlier stages posted on the carbs thread saying "everything in moderation and all will be fine" - "no it will not be effing fine for us and why do not you look and see what you post where" was my thought.
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Santa...I asked you when you were diagnosed stage 4 because of the way you eat and how that may have contributed in a good way or any way to you being diagnosed 4. I didn't see it in your signature so that is why I asked because not everyones signature is up to date.
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I don’t post often as I have been stable for 3 years with very extensive bone mets taking I/L plus Xgeva. Before that I was 12 years from original IDC Dx. I have been a vegetarian for 30 years but love my sugar and carbs. I read Jane Mclelland’s book as soon as it came out and also Life over Cancer. I am also following the Cancer Rocks forum. I don’t have a problem with anyone sharing information on this thread or forum however I do think that stage IV is very different to earlier stages. I so hope that the things suggested by you Santarbarbarian will help you not reach stage IV and indeed help everyone but I have yet to hear that anyone has been cured of stage IV cancer by diet. However Fenbendazol, the COC program and Jane’s metro map really interest me and I am following Frisky et al really to see how they get on and to be aware of any s/e’s. I have my next scan in October if there is progression I am all over these protocols but for now I feel that I am on enough meds and I am eating, drinking and doing whatever I like because life for me needs to be fun.
Love and good luck to everyone particularly you brave pioneers.0 -
Nicole, I saw your question and I realized that it was for the reason that you explained later, I didn't take it in any other way.
Personally, I already explained that I have a supraclavicular node so I don't know wich is my stage right now. I could be in stage 4 right now and not even know ...
Thanks to Santa and all the friends of different stages who publish interesting things. We enrich each other.I really believe that this thread is outside any classification ... should be declared "World Heritage" LOL
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Santa,
I feel the same as everyone else. All are welcome, and we appreciate all the information you provide.
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Thanks everyone. I appreciate being able to discuss these things and share knowledge.
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