I say YES. YOU say NO....Numero Tre! Enjoy!
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A few things to ponder, especially when you are trying to use the Bible to win political arguments.
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@divinemrsm Along the same lines as the Dugger family, is the home schooling program of the conservative Christian movement. Of course, the let their son molest some of their daughters, which is disgusting. Below is interesting article about one couple who broke free from home schooling craziness.
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I’ve been lurking, been a nasty month with plumbing issues at the house. And my tumor markers are up, PET/ct this Friday. Still not used to the “improved “ site.
Appears there may be a peep walk Thursday 🤞🤞🤞
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perp walk
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I've always been appalled at the Duggars. I was of the opinion long ago that if you are foolish enough to have THAT many children you can expect some issues. I know it is the sexually perverted one we generally hear about, but frankly, I don't think you can expect a whole lot would you ascribe to such a fundamentalist religion.
Sorry to say, but any woman who consents to be a baby making machine for as long as she can ad-infinitum, has a whole lot of cards missing in her deck. Of course, if your busy the rest of your life with diapers and formula and planning new bedrooms, you won't have time to start 'upsets' with your better half. Too busy making sure another baby is on the way as soon as possible. One way or the other I think it asks for all kinds of trouble. I have no respect for the Duggars or people like them.
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Hope your tests go okay, spookie. let us know what you find out. I'd take either a peep walk or a perp walk at this point!
I will check out the Duggar documentary. I did watch their show sometimes…out of appalled curiosity more than anything else. If you marry off your girls young & get them involved with raising lots & lots of babies, there won't be very much time for them to think about and question what they have been taught.
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Thanks Ruth, Divine, and Betrayal! I've already gotten a few people from different states reach out to me.
Good luck with your procedure, Spookie. I hope it's good news.
The Duggars are a horrid bunch. They're part of the Quiverfull movement, which makes my skin crawl.
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Spookie I'd take peep or perk either way too. We have been hearing that it is coming, but we have been waiting since the day that human boil took office so un-deserved and doing everything he wanted.
Fingers crossed and lots of hope on your tests. We will all be anxious.
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They certainly should but won't be. Everything the Loon did should be reversed — even if there was anything halfway decent because Pres. Biden could do it better.
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The diggers make my skin crawl- it did seem like some of the girls were starting to rebel.
Spokiesmom- nice to see you- was getting a little worried. my tumor markers were heading up- but, the PET showed just a small amount of bony progression- so will probably stay the course- hope that is what you find as well.
ASCO wrapping up so hopefully some great new options soon.
I agree a Peep or a Perp- I will take it.
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Ohmygosh, spookiesmom! I’m so glad you posted! I have been thinking of you and wondering where you’ve been. I hope the plumbing issue gets cleared up and wishing you the best with the pet scan. I always love your input, so I’ve missed you!
I loosely keep up with a forum that is anti-Duggar/quiverful, the whole nine yards. I was glad to find it because for a long time, I only knew people who liked them. Their religion is heavy on the patriarchy, wives must submit to husbands and are taught to always be “joyfully available” meaning they must always consent to sex. Females are blamed if they are sexually abused. Wives bear the blame if their husband strays, and so on. But they also have a huge political agenda, which is extreme right conservatism.
Cardplayer, the documentary discusses homeschooling. For one thing, it’s a way to keep females dumbed down so they have no option but to stay in the cult. And there’s so much political indoctrination. Someone on the forum I mentioned had the same link to the homeschooling story, so I’ve read it. I only wish more see the light. There are many families like the Duggars with the wives continually pregnant. The men don’t even care about the health of their wives. Is sickening.
Ruth, the Duggars were intentionally made to appear as harmless entertainment which fooled many. I hope the documentary helps enlighten the masses.
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spookiesmom, ugh on plumbing issues but more importantly thinking good thoughts for your PET.
Fundamentalism, in almost any religion, is all about controlling women, isn’t it?0 -
I just watched part 1 of the Duggars. It reminds me of a book about the Old South (pre Civil War) I once read when trying to figure out the mindset of women of those days who had baby after baby until it literally killed them. The upper class men not only wanted to be the masters of their enslaved people, but of their wives & families as well. They lived far apart from cities & even each other, so the women had limited contact with anyone outside of their immediate circle. The kids were tutored at home, the women were married young (to men within that circle…often to cousins). They had lots of babies (still having large families long after their Northern sisters had begun to limit the size of their families). They needed escorts when they traveled etc. and so neither saw, or heard of, any other way of living other than the one they were in.
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While I’m no expert on religions by any means, I’d say you’re right about fundamentalism. I once read something about how almost all religions are patriarchal. Sigh.
Wow, Ruth! That is simply a fascinating look at the lives of women in pre-Civil War Old South. What a great point you make about upper class men wanting to be masters of not just slaves but their families as well. It hadn’t ever crossed my mind but makes total sense. Keeping them isolated, omg.
Your comments tap into what I’m learning through my current hobby which is recording local history by photographing headstones at cemeteries and adding them to the website Find-A-Grave, owned by Ancestry.com. I’ve been concentrating on a large Catholic cemetery where my parents/grandparents are buried. Through the process, I’ve come to understand how very common it was in the late 1800s-early 1900s for women to die in childbirth. I see it over and over and over in this cemetery! Usually it’s women in their 20s or 30s who already have five or six kids who die from childbirth complications; a number of husbands go on to marry again (often to a much younger woman) and continue having many more kids with her. For the love of all things sacred! It’s been extremely eye-opening.
Did you find the documentary interesting enough that you will watch more?
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Yes, I will watch the rest. A scary reminder of how far we have NOT come....and how easy it is to slide backwards.
You can find a treasure trove of history in those old cemeteries. My mom's family worked their way to Wisconsin & there's a whole section in the local cemetery of my ancestors. From a military encryption on the grave of a great-great-great uncle, I was able to track the unit he was with during the Civil War, what battles he fought in etc. Also that his older brother died in combat during that war. Military records are VERY thorough. So interesting
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I think to have an understanding of history, you need to (try to) understand the mindset of the people living during any particular time. There were (during all times of history) couples who truly loved each other. Anyone who lived in a rural area for sure knew how babies got made. So my question still is, if you saw your beloved wife growing weaker and weaker with each birth; why wouldn't you abstain (at least long enough for her health to rebound)?????
And, if I were a woman who was in loving relationship, why wouldn't I suggest that? ( I couldn't demand it as I basically was his property).
When politicians start messing with a women's reproductive rights, it's about power, nothing else
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Ruthbru& Divine: You are right about them understanding how babies were made. When you do genealogy you see how they reproduce annually and then lose these children at early ages due to communicable diseases. The 1900 census asked how many children they had birthed and how many were still alive and it was not unusual to see them report 12 births and 4 living. So even in a loving relationship, how could they bear to bury the child they had birthed? Even those who survived, may only have reached early adulthood before they succumbed to TB from working in mills and other less than ideal working conditions.
It is about power since their part in a reproductive relationship is short and not much of a contribution when you think about it. If they had to experience one labor that would be a deterrent for sure. They need women to serve as a vessel according to the Bible and that still persists among the conservatives. I want to slap those women silly since they are perpetuating slavery under another guise.
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Fundamentalist (white nationalists) Christians are now sitting on the Supreme Court destroying the constitutional rights of women and will soon be overturning affirmative action. They’ve taken over school boards and local governments. Voting at all levels matters.
Good to see you back spookiesmom. I hope the test goes well.
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Cardplayer- such good memes.
one thing that I have noticed is that women feel these taking away of our rights very deeply and emotionally and strongly- and men if they agree with you seem to not have the emotion and make it all "logic" which seems to create a big disconnect.
Did you see the episode of Bridgerton where Violet Bridgerton is pregnant at the time of her husband's death and she is having trouble with the birth and she begs her oldest son to save her over the baby if it comes to that- he is horrified and quite conflicted, but, finally says "as you wish". with almost disgust.
I agree that if men had to be the ones who were pregnant or nursing- if there were any children- abortion would be legal, paid for and given leave for.
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Ruth, how fascinating to have a cemetery of ancestors with which to delve into your genealogy. I envy that because all my grandparents are immigrants from Italy and Poland, so I mostly know only little of what’s been verbally handed down about my heritage.
I, too, have outrage that many men back in the day did not consider their wives’ health and just kept getting them pregnant. And even with the Duggars, after a difficult 19th childbirth where the wife almost lost her life, she still got pregnant again! I mean, just rocks for brains. (The 20th pregnancy ended in miscarriage and that was that).
Betrayal, yes, childhood death in the 1800s-early 1900s was staggering. Tuberculosis was a leading cause, as you say, as was pneumonia (my six year old aunt was a casualty of it). And measles, typhoid fever, influenza. There were many stillbirths, too. Sadly, “malnutriton” pops up as a frequent cause of infant death from that era. I cannot even imagine what those times were like.
I’m livid that men have politicized women’s health, even tho I ‘m well beyond child bearing age. I believe male politicians see women as easy targets and want to keep them vulnerable and dependent. Yes, it is a travesty to see how far we have not come.
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