Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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Wow, I go on a field trip today and the topic explodes!! You've all been busy ladies. Working to get reported again, no doubt!
Keep it up!! I'm probably not going to get caught up, but from my quick skim if seems like things got sorted out OK. I'm glad to see that. I'm sad that people felt the need to report posts that they disagreed with, hopefully they'll move on to a different target now, since this group fought back and the mods sided with us. 0 -
This is a good place
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wow, I don't check in for a couple of days and come in to find all 'hell' has broken lose, (strictly metaphorical you understand!!) This is the one place I always check in on on my forays into the world of BCO as I feel so comfortable with you ladies with your great sense of humour..it isn't only that we are like-minded, but that I feel you are open to anything and everything, and I really enjoy having metaphysical debates one moment and total absurdity the next....so thank you all, and thank you mods for letting us be
Meanwhile I'm going to try and work out how to upload some photos from my Venice trip in January
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Athena - if you want to have an even BETTER laugh - go find the video of Andrea Mitchell interviewing the guy - who said the original "put an aspiring between your knees" - her look is HYSTERICAL - she was literally speechless, and said so...
Even funnier ( if you can stop crying) is what Jon Stewart has to say about the VA legislation regarding vaginal ultrasounds being required. I'd try to find the link to Stewart's & post it here, but would probably set off the Report Button into flame...tee, hee...wouldn't wanna do that..the Mods are really trying..
HL - you? Stubborn???? mor tee, hees...DARN, that's probably why we're all still here after the treatments we've been through to fight this %@^#$#^@ disease!!!
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Favorite Songs - thinking of HL
Joan Baez "Ain't gonna let nobody turn me around"
and" FOREVER YOUNG"...blasting, full volume, chest thumping LOUD
Extra's cuz HL can't do'em on her Ipad....HUGS TO ALL - hang in there - Spring is coming. There are snow drops in western MA...no crocus yet, but I'll let you know... also like to sing along to "I Hope You Dance"
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It's funny, but "stubborn" is the word I use to describe what it takes to get through BC. If someone tries to tell me I'm brave, I reply that stubborness is the much truer adjective. I don't post terribly often, but this thread is incredibly important to me. As someone else said, this is my only safe haven for atheist conversation.
I could use some more flower photos, too, as it's snowing like heck here in Minnesota and spring won't be here until May. <g>
--Cindy
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SunflowersM,
Here's a link to the statement. I haven't heard of women being called "gals" in a very long time. It the Republican Party in a time warp?
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Thanks, notself - the look on Andrea Mitchell's face is priceless...
here's the Jon Stewart comment on the VA proposed legiation - some times it take a humorist, a satire, to show how REALLY awful, offensive something is - the women of the USA owe Stewart a great deal of appreciation: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-february-21-2012/punanny-state---virginia-s-transvaginal-ultrasound-bill
Just amazing this is taking place in 2012 - why are women so under attack? Maybe it's folks like me, HL, being , ah, STUBBORN about our rights.... and I'll ad Athena in there too ;-)
Cindy - can't send flower pics right now...it's snowing
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Notself ... thanks for posting the link.
Sunflowers ... Jon Stewart was hilarious, but it also made me angry.
Cindy .. .my daffodils are blooming now and they're beautiful!
We have a huge storm moving in now, so I will try to take a pick of the daffy's tomorrow.
hugs,
Bren
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Bren - know what you mean about Stewart. Crying while I was laughing - what does it say about our country that it takes a comedian,, satirist, to get to the truth????
Oooohh...daffodils...I won't see mine til May...well, something to look forward to..
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I think families are under attack. There is an effort to eliminate the health care bill that hasn't stopped since it passed. There is no effort to improve it - just eliminate it. There is an effort to eliminate all forms of birth control although this effort is just now becoming generally known. When a group wants to stop family planning and repeal health care, then families are definitely under attack.
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From my point of view - anyone who isn't in lockstep agreement with the far right is under attack. The weird thing, though, is that I have friends who are tea party affiliates - they feel that they are under attack.
I personally put most of the blame for this stuff on the right wing, though. They have changed the face of this country. Things that most people my age have taken for granted are being taken away. People don't pay attention to the issues - just the soundbites. They vote for their "team" and don't realize that they are actually voting against their own interests while thinking they are voting for them. They believe the lies and never check out reality. Then when something they need is no longer available, their "team" blames it on the "other guys".
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Confession: I hate when I do this.
SoCalLisa, it's not easy to report a post. I cannot envision how someone could manage to report a post by accident, given the multiple steps required.
First, the person must hit the "Report this Post" button, which admittedly is right next to the "Post a Reply" button. (My fingers are too fat for dh's iPhone, and I often find that I've pressed the wrong key on the virtual keypad.)
With that first click, a second screen appears that requires a more purposeful action by the person. The top of that second screen contains a list of the types of activities that should be reported, followed by a list of the types of activities that should not be reported (basically, a reminder of the community rules). That's followed by the question, "Are you sure you want to report the following Post from [the name of the thread and the forum] [a quote of the entire post that's being threatened].
Beneath that quote are two buttons. One is "Report as SPAM", and the other is "Report as Rule Violation." The person has to scroll down to those buttons and choose one of them to press. Only then is the post "reported" by that person. How the heck could someone do all that by accident?
Ah, chumfry.... I meant to write to you earlier. During the very same week that your dad died, mine died. In fact, I was up in your neck of the woods (I imagine) for my dad's funeral service at what was likely the same time you were dealing with all those born-again relatives and friends.
I was lucky enough to have not experienced those pressures in association with my dad's death and memorial service. Actually, I was dreading both my parents' services (my mom died a year ago) because I feared someone would tell me, "You know he's in a better place now," or, "It was her time," or other such well-meaning but gut-wrenching platitudes. Or, worse yet, the preacher (formerly called a "minister" but now referred to as a "priest" in my family's church) would go on and on about "G-d's will" or "G-d needed her more than we did," or, "G-d called her home," etc. etc.
Fortunately, none of that happened; or, if it did, it was so subtle that I did not notice. Mostly I credit the religious denomination in which I was raised and to which my parents belonged. Episcopalians might look like Catholics (there's the traditional liturgy, and all the kneeling and standing which they no longer do, and the "priest" stuff, and calling the minister "Father"). But, Episcopalians are probably the most liberal-minded of all the organized (formal) Christian denominations. (I'm leaving out Unitarians, which don't fit the mold at all.)
When I was going through "catechism" in junior high school, I recall discussions about "Who's right in all of this? Why should we think we know better than, say, the Baptists, or the Mormons, or even the Buddhists?" (Our discussions really were a free-for-all.) Our teacher would quote a sage mentor (one of the ministers/priests who had taught him), telling us "They're all spokes on the same wheel. Nobody knows who's right or wrong; perhaps we're all right." (etc.) I thought that was an extremely open-minded viewpoint, but I embraced it at the time.
Since then, of course, I've dropped out. The scientist in me cannot accept unsubstantiated theories. Also, if they're all right, why do people insist on such cruelty, even killing each other over their beliefs? But, I continue to wish the best for all my friends and family members who do believe. The last thing I would do would be mock them, or denigrate their deeply-held beliefs.
And, in some odd way I cannot explain logically, I wish their beliefs could come true for them, even if I know they are not true for me. (I wish my mom and dad really were together again, for their sake. It would make them very happy if that were true, even if it was not true for me.)
Finally, I'm going to quote the O.P., whom I knew pretty well because she and I joined BCO about the same time:
"Hi I am newly diagnosed and I know a lot of people rely on their faith for support and find great peace with that, however I am a(n) atheist and was wondering if anyone else here was also."
If you felt a lurch within the last few minutes, that was otter trying to turn the train off onto a side rail.
otter
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Thank you for your well written and loving post, otter.
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Anyone here from Pennyslvania?
http://www.politicususa.com/en/transvaginal-war-on-women
Otter -- You always make a whole lotta sense! And yes, Episcopalians/Anglicans are very liberal-minded; and they use wine for Communion instead of Welch's Grape Juice! In Canada, I would say that the United Church* is the denomination most concerned (and acting upon) social justice. Unfortunately, it still retains its usage of Welch's..... However, I don't attend services anymore, although I applaud the work it does on behalf of all citizens.
*The United Church of Canada was formed in 1925 (I think?), uniting Methodists, Congregationalists, and many Presbyterians.
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Otter obviously I have probably never reported a post if I would have had to go thru all those steps...who knew? It is just that I have a heck of a time with my tablet hitting all the right keys
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I love you, Otter.
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More abalone for our Otter - cheer, cheer, cheer, clapping furry paws too.
Anglican church - funtion in England ( known affectionately as "the Mother Country") to some USA Episcopalians ( the frozen chosen?) is: get read for it: hatch'em, match'em, & dispatch'em. Which I learned from a friend in London years ago...
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"Like," Sunflowers!
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Otter ... interesting perspective! Thanks for sharing.
Otter wrote: I continue to wish the best for all my friends and family members who do believe. The last thing I would do would be mock them, or denigrate their deeply-held beliefs.
I guess that's what I was saying I wanted to do, sometimes, in my previous post. It was said out of frustration. I'm sorry. It just gets so difficult sometimes to feel that those of us who don't hold the same beliefs aren't free to speak them without being mocked, ridiculed, and, in the case of what seemed to happen on this thread, get "reported" for them. As I've said before, I live in the "Bible Belt" and there's hardly a day that goes by that there not some religious comment or conversation. I guess I'm just growing old and frustrated by it and it surfaced here.
Now, to continue the train moving down another track, I believe someone asked for pics of flowers.
These beautiful camellias were pics I recently took when I made a trip to a nursery about an hour from my home. Yes, I did come back with some new babies for my yard!
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Hi everyone
I'm going to change the topic for a minute if you don't mind. I need..something..I don't know. I haven't ever been a "believer", not really sure what I do believe, but I'm pretty sure there isn't some entity in the clouds that gets pissy if I eat a cheese burger on Fridays. My two youngest kids go to church with their friends occasionally, I do not try to influence their take on religion. They can choose whatever path they want to, but lately, well since my dx, I've had thoughts about pushing them to believe in the heaven part of it all just because it would make it easier on them when I'm gone. My youngest is 10 and very much a mommas boy. I think it would give him some comfort to think of me in heaven rather than just gone.
I've never lied to my kids, tooth fairy, Santa, Easter bunny..when they asked "Are they real?" I fessed up and said no. When they ask about God, I say "I don't know." because I really don't know...
Anyway, just wondering if I anyone else has thought about this kind of thing..and if I would be a giant hypocrite if I told my son heaven was real.....
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Interesting question and I doubt if you are the only one who has ever thought that way.
I'm agnostic ... don't believe in any of the organized religions ... but don't know what may be out there. I think you can allow your children to hope/believe that there may well be something beyond this life without having to get into all the good/bad - heaven/hell stuff. Unfortunately if you don't believe exactly as some folks do in some organized religions they would say you are headed straight for hell and that is not something I would want my child to be vulnerable to believing.
We go the 'many possibilities' and we will find out when we are meant to know route.
Just my thoughts ...
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Stormynyte...no one can answer this for you. I am not at stage IV and cannot begin to truly know where you are. But I can say that I understand the impulse to tell your kids that you are going to heaven. I have often wished I could do something like that (and have talked about it on this very thread).
For me, I could not do that, though. I would have to tell my children (and do tell my children) the things I truly believe and how to make sense of the world. No one else (not even my husband) can teach them my world view, and how to cope with the challenges of life, except me. So I feel I must be completely (and what sometimes feels brutally) honest with them so that I can share fully with them. I believe that in our family they feel truly loved and included because we are in it (life) together.
I do know this, no one else can decide for you if you should or shouldn't. And, in the end, I believe that the truly only important thing you can do as a parent is let your kids know they are truly and deeply loved. The rest is just window dressing.
Well, those are my thoughts anyway... I wish you lots of strength and fortitude, and calm and serenity, as you consider this.
Claire
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I think there's something beyond this life, though I don't know what form it takes. Too many people close to me have died while talking to and seeing long-dead relatives. Nature does recycle, after all.
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Stormy .. I don't know if I can be of help to you or not. Since I don't believe in Hell, it stands to reason that I don't believe in Heaven either. But, like Scootaloo, I believe there is something else out there, maybe a different dimension. I think when I die that I am gone .. but gone where, I don't have a clue.
I don't think it hurts little kids to think of heaven as a place. I think their minds can grasp that concept and find comfort in it. They want to know that their mom is watching over them always. That's probably the most important thing. There is plenty of time for them to grow up and form their own beliefs.
I don't think you are a hypocrite for wanting to give your kids comfort, especially your youngest.
hugs and love to you,
Bren
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I have never seen faith as a choice. I would probably PREFER to believe - it would solve so many things in my mind. But I don't, and it's not because I feel like it. Faith is a vocation for some, one they have to work on for life. For others it is an irresistible pull. But for too many it is a convenience to turn to whenever you want to prove a point or when something bad happens and you need a quick explanation. My atheism has withstood the test of time - and not because I wanted it to. It just is.
I never asked my parents about God until I was 18 and found out that my father had always been an atheist. He raised me allowing me to come to my own conclusions by myself. It is how I would raise my children. I grew up with plenty of lithurgy (mostly Anlican, some Catholic).
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I certainly don't believe in the organized church story. On the other hand, it is not hard to say that we live on in those who loved us. When I had my second diagnosis, it may or may not make sense, but I felt encouragement from my mother and from a very good friend both of whom died about a decade earlier. Maybe it was me imagining what they would have said had they been here. Either way, they live on as long as I remember them.
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I'm not an atheist, nor am I really an agnostic. I was raised by a Bible thumping fundamentalist mother and an agnostic Dad, then married a lapsed Catholic, so we're just a mess.
I believe in God in some form, but I don't think he/she/it much gives a rip about what we do from day to day. I don't believe he/she/it is into either punishment or reward for our actions. I do, like others here from the sound of things, believe that there is something after. I guess I think more something like re-incarnation. All of our atoms break down and get re-used into something else - why not our spirit/thoughts/self as well? I don't think it would be "me" in a different form, but more something like a part of me, a part of you and a part of him all mooshed together and reformed into something else (right now, I think a tree would be nice ).As for what do you tell your children, Stormynyte - I would be careful about telling them something that you don't truly believe in. You will be gone, and will not be able to correct their thoughts of you. I don't think children are all that uncomfortable with the "I don't know, but whatever happens I'll always love you" idea. It seems to me that kids don't have the problem with "I don't know" that adults do. Just my opinion - feel totally free to completely disregard..
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GG -- I agree with the "I don't know" answer. Stormynyte will live on in the hearts and minds of her children. My parents died many years ago and they DO live on in my mind and my heart. I think of them both (and my late sister) every day, and I remember all the good and wonderful things we shared, and do not recall arguments or any unhappiness that all families go through.It's absolutely true that NONE of us knows what happens after we're finished with our life here. But no one is going to frighten me into thinking that if I don't pray to their G-d that I'll end up in some fire and brimstone place. That's just FEAR-making in order to try and exert control. I'm lucky that I live in a country that equates freedom with being able to exist as an unbeliever, and without any government telling me what I can and cannot do with my own body. If we all lived by the Golden Rule (common to all religions, and to rhe ability to co-exist) how much better would all our lives be? Alot!0
