Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
Comments
-
Cindy!
How traumatic was that!!?? Disrespectful is an understatement!
One of my girlfriends in high school lived in a funeral home. Her dad was the director. I spent the night on many occasion & never got spooked. They were sort of a normal Six Feet Under family.
My middle daughter is going to college to be a medical examiner/coroner. Her choice of occupation freaked out my other daughter who faints at the sight of blood. All 3 of my girls 23-11 are atheists/agnostic. Where as my DH says he just doesn't know. My 9yo son believes in God & Heaven...I will let him make his own choices & respect them as I did with the girls. My MIL had my youngest daughter baptised without my knowledge or consent, she use to sneak them off to church at every opportunity. *shrugs*
It had no significance to me, other than the disrespect. I think I was more upset when she cut off my youngest's waist long hair & had her ears pierced with-out asking.
Hope you enjoy the DVD, konakat.
0 -
I love this thread!
61linda, thanks for the tip about the Duncan Mills group, I will check into that! I've thought of getting into Civil War reenactment... wish I still had my horse, I could join a cavalry unit!
I also do not find the Bible credible. I don't understand anyone who has learned how the Bible came into being can even begin to think that it is the infallible word of God. How can something that was put together by men be the word of God? I don't get it. Yet I think there are certain basic truths which can be found in the Bible (just as they can be found elsewhere). I do believe that a man named Jesus did live on this earth and did teach a radical and revolutionary way of living (sharing the wealth, caring for the poor, treating others as you want to be treated), which has been completely warped and changed by men ever since into something serving their own purposes.
As for heaven and hell... I think they are here on earth and are of our own making. I don't know what is going to happen when I die. Marcus Borg says he is content to know that he will "die into God". Works for me.
And on the subject of simple burials... there was an article in Smithsonian's March issue about a home funeral, it was very interesting. Here's the link: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/Presence-of-Mind-Which-Way-Out.html. As for myself, I've left instructions that I'm to be cremated and my ashed scattered, along with those of my dogs, in the Pacific Ocean at Gualala, California, one of my favorite places.
0 -
Bren!!!!! Wow so good to see you...fancy meeting here!!
My DH and I already have it planned to be cremated and put in the nearest
National Cemetery...they have places for ashes...and they put up a little
plaque in case someone in the next century is into geneaology...
0 -
Like some of the others of you, I wish I could believe - it's just not in my genetic makeup. This week I found out that my tumor markers were elevated. I would like nothing more than to be able to pray that it is nothing, but instead I'll worry and do too much research on the net. Liz - I have been home but am leaving tomorrow for a 2 week trip to Northern CA, Oregon and Washington. Lots of friends in lots of places + a few nights of downtime just for me.0
-
LOL, LOL, Prayer as cosmic gumball machine!!! Just too funny!! I really do agree with your basic premise and just love the visual on this.
guitarGrl, loving peace wishes to you. Hope you have a restful trip.
Dawnn, I think the ashes pendant is a very nice idea. It's a great way to connect to your memories of your Dad.
2acdmom, sorry I misspelled your name. Happy to help and I hope you connect with this group. I don't remember reading about a cavalry unit though.
Cindy, it's a wonder you continued in your field after that interview. It's nice to now have the perspective time gives.:D
This thread continues to crystalize my thoughts into succinct and pithy sound bites, not to mention major laughs...
I like the idea of direct cremation with my ashes and bone fragments sprinkled in the flower beds and have told my family that's what I want, specified it in our trust and left a note in my "death instructions" for our executor/trustee. Once I'm gone I doubt I'll care much but while I'm still here, that's what I want. The soil around here is very acidic and adding some ashes will only neutralize it until more pine needles fall. Don't we add bone meal when planting daffodils, irises and tulips? What's the difference? My daughter likes ritual and a place to go to talk to her dead relatives so it may not happen unless she suddenly gets comfortable talking to plants.
Has anybody written any death instructions? After my Dad died, there was so much to do I didn't get some things done in what the law calls a "timely manner" or in an orderly sequence. I had to go back and make sure no piece was missed. In an effort to help our executor/trustee avoid that particular hassle, I wrote out the steps I now know about with a timeline, where to go to do what, etc. I still have to write up sample letters so he gets the wording required in this state. I also wanted to make sure he knew what I wanted and why, like no funeral or service at all. My DH tells me it's all me trying to control things even after I die. (Duh, isn't that the purpose of doing wills and trusts?) I feel we are dumping all this work on the poor guy, may as well do what we can to make it a little easier.0 -
Did anyone watch The Daily Show last night? The guest was Jeff Sharlet, author of "The Family". Without going into any details about his book here, I suggest you google him. It isn't the vocal fundamentalists that we have to worry about.....
0 -
C Street, apparently....
0 -
I've really enjoyed reading this thread. I'm an agnostic myself and I think it's a waste of time arguing whether there's a god or not--besides, if anything it's probably a goddess.
What matters are our actions and behavior towards others. Atheists are some of the kindest, most humane people I know. Much more "Christian" than many Christians as far as kindness to others. I'm an active UU (Unitarian-Universalist) and my church offers a caring community, LOADS of opportunities for social action and is a refuge for liberal-minded folks. Along with atheists, agostics and maybe a few Christians, we have a Womenspirit group as well as a pagan group. Quotations from all religions are quoted as well as Emerson, Lincoln, Darwin, Stanton and other great minds.
Anyway, I just wanted to post a thank you to all who have shared on this thread!
0 -
Hello to Denali from a pagan goddess-worshipper...I've been to rituals at the Unitarian Church and they're pretty amazing. Our Congregationalist Wiccan Association actually did a shared ritual with them for one of the sabbats a couple of years ago.
0 -
Layne, "founded by religious fanatics - the pilgrims".....LOL your DH is so right!
0 -
I'll come out in the open and admit I'm a Pagan, too, lurking on this atheist thread. But it's because I find so much sane comfort here, and cannot find it on other spiritual threads. I find like-minded hearts and minds here who get their strength from within themselves and share that strength with sisters, instead of giving themselves over to the imagined power of some distant deity and its book.
0 -
Some input from the "got my degree in history but didn't do anything with it" person...
Yes, the Massachusetts Bay Colony was established (in 1620 or 1621, can't remember which) by Puritans, who were looking to live free of the persecution visited upon them by the Anglicans in England. They, in turn, persecuted those who didn't conform to their rules. Rhode Island was established by those escaping from the Puritans. However, even prior to the Masschusetts Bay Colony was established, Jamestown was established in 1607 in Virginia by Anglicans looking to make money (two major themes here which seem awfully familiar, money and religion).
Pennsylvania was founded by Quakers, Maryland was predominantly Catholic... I think all the colonies were different and can't be categorized into one statement of "religious fanatics" although I would certainly agree that religious fanaticism seems to be a constant thread in the American experience.
There was an interesting article in the last issue of Colonial Williamsburg's magazine regarding whether or not the "founding fathers" were Christians, Deists, or what. I personally am a fan of Abigail Adams, who wrote that nothing could convince her against her reason that "three was one and one was three". And, if I recall correctly, the Congregationalists, which is what John and Abigail Adams were, evolved into today's Unitarians.
0 -
the interesting thing..one of my great great and more great grandfathers was at Jamestown, didn't like it so went back to England and then returned to the colonies on the Mayflower..he ended up at Plimoth...I think he was an adventurer rather than a religious person..but then again, how would I know????...
I do know, I feel free from religion now..
0 -
Madalyn, you are welcome! I hope I didn't sound like I was preaching, I love history and love to share it because it is so important and fascinating to me.
SoCalLisa, how interesting! I think your ancestor would have to be an adventurer rather than a religious person--unless he underwent a conversion when he was back in England... Who knows?
While cleaning up the kitchen tonight I was thinking of this topic and realized that the thing that makes me so uncomfortable being around some Christians is their assumption that everyone believes, or should believe, the same way they do. They don't acknowledge diversity. That bothers me. How can you view this country's history and not acknowledge diversity? I don't get it.
0 -
I love this thread & the connections too. Except for Liz, I will probably never meet any of you but feel like you are my rebel friends.
Yesterday I went to visit a friend in Palo Alto who has mets to her spinal chord fluid. They originally gave her 3 months, but she's not going to make it that long - she's already stopped eating.
What do you say to someone you will never see again? (Palo Alto is an 8 hour drive from San Diego if you speed & there's no traffic) We don't have the "see you in the next life" belief. So we hugged and didn't say goodbye at all.
It's funny though - I was born non-religious Jewish, but I know way more about Christianity because Christianity has much better gospel music. As 2acdmom says it's hard to understand how our country has made this 180 degree turn.
0 -
I'm very grateful I found this thread -- right when I needed it. I was telling a friend about this thread and that I've got a much better grip on death, dying, entering into the great cosmic recycling program. It's just the bullshit leading up to it that I have to sort out!!
My friend and I never really talked about this stuff before. He's pagan and involved in the community in Salem, MA, of all places. Sometimes he's a bit flaky, but he doesn't look at me like I'm nuts! My boyfriend is a non-practicing Catholic and wonders how I don't believe in God. I say easy. But we both agree that if there is a hell, he has a first class ticket there! He'll probably be a social director in one of the burning abysses... We do agree on the great recycling program though...
0 -
Your comment about hell got me thinking about the 'welcome to hell' sketch on youtube. I think it's hilarious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFGrQMD6UqcI'm sure it's not humorous for everyone, but I think laughter is mighty fine medicine, and that's the spirit in which I share the link. Hope ya'll enjoy if you look at it.
0 -
Loved the video, Althea! Thanks for sharing!
0 -
Mr. Bean!!!! Wonderful video, Althea -- thanks!
Speaking of hell, I guess fear is the emotional driver that really leads us, isn't it? Religious belief is encouraged by fear (don't want to go to hell); striding forward and attempting new ways of doing things (healthcare, anyone?) can be aborted by fear. Those (marketers, politicians, televangelists) who understand and practice this can pretty well predict the outcome of any new initiative that they don't like, or easily persuade folks to part with hard-earned cash..
And bringing it down to our own level: fear has the upper hand as we wait for test results. Now, if we could just replace fear by courage and optimism, life sure would be better, wouldn't it?
0 -
Speaking of recycling...
I was watching one of my science shows, yes...I am a dork, I know.
They were talking about matter here on Earth & how all that ever will be is and has been here. It is simply used over & over & over. That a glass of water we drink, or a breath of air we take, has matter in it that was once a dinosaur or once Einstein himself.
The elements shuffle & form new items over & over....but they remain the same elements forever.
Everything from a blade of grass to a cloud in the sky was once star stuff, the same as us.
0 -
Althea, I laughed so hard I almost burst my stitches. Thanks for that bit of levity.
I had checked in on this thread a while back and the fundamentalists crashing in to convert and condemn made me feel sick. This is a wonderful group of women. Critical thinking, imagine that!
0 -
Hi Layne!! You crack me up. I'm going to remember that "Mormon" note for a very long time. Ha! I lived in the heart of Mormon land for a number of years!
Hi Dawn .. I found great comfort in what you wrote about all matter returning to matter .. or ashes to ashes and dust to dust.
I do believe in God .. but I use the word Universe as synonymous with this. The omnipotent and omnipresence of the Universe. Can't be explained ... it just is. Don't believe in heaven or hell .. just ashes to ashes and dust to dust.
There was recently a squirmish on one of the oldest threads on this site. A poster on that thread of many years is not a "believer," well the current "believers" took exception to this and suggested the poster may be more comfortable elsewhere. OMG. I about blew a blood vessel.
When some suggested that it was a thread for all, regardless of religion, sex, race, etc., the response was that "God" was going to punish us (for suggesting this unholiest of ideas). We were vilified and another new Christian thread was started because we "ran the believers off." This all caused me to take another look at the Bible (Jefferson version). What Jesus said is that there are two commandments for ALL (he was talking to everybody .. not just Christians) ... love God and love one another. Pretty damn simple. Isn't that what Islam teaches, Budhaism, Hinduism, Judaism, Wiccan and all the rest I've left out. Isn't that just another way of saying there's a whole big Universe out there and give the Golden Rule your best shot.
BTW ... I do believe in doggie heaven! Layne .. I'm with you, I want my beloved Bobo sprinkled in the earth with me. Talk about unconditional love. He doesn't give a hoot what I believe in ... just that I love him. And very soon now, I am going to have to let him go.
Hugs and stuff to all,
Bren
0 -
As Woody Allen once said, "I'm not afraid of death, I just don't want to be there when it happens".
0 -
BinVa, good to see you again. I'm sending pink healing light to bobo. Oops, that's probably not the best thing to say on the atheist thread. Yet, I'm saying it anyway because the people who say they're nonbelievers are the most well behaved group of people I've ever seen! The only time people are ill behaved seems to be the occasions when proselytizing (sp) barges in and makes its presence unwelcome.
This thread reminds me of the film Chocolat. It's about a woman who opens a chocolatery in a small town. She comes into conflict with the church and is maligned for her nonconformity and for the decadence of her chocolate. Yet, it is the churchgoers who personify the despicable behavior, and the chocalatier is the one who practices forgiveness and compassion. It's one of my all time favorite films.
I'm glad some of y'all are liking the welcome to hell youtube.
0 -
re:There are no atheists in the OR.
This reminds me of some of the rotten people I have known, yes there are just rotten people, who instantly become "born again" when they find out they are ill. Like it is okay to be a nasty idiot your entire life, find out you are dying & then praise god? Is that how it works? Really?
I would think that is done out of fear. When I had my last surgery to remove some necrosis, it was done in a PS office surgery center....I was in the recliner freezing my butt off, so I curled up to keep warm....the nurse came in & said "awww, look, she is praying".
I laughed so hard but, I was too stoned to explain to her why I found it funny.
Of all of the religions, Pagans seem to be the most peaceful, Earth, nature loving bunch...I relate to them most of all. Then there are the Mormons of old & the multiple wives, I WISH!! I'd love to have a live-in girlfriend, who helps me clean, watch the kids & has sex with my DH when I don't wanna!
I envy those who can find strength & comfort someplace I see illogical thinking. The whole Noah's Ark story alone makes my head spin.....and that Christmas Tree!!! They STOLE it!!!
I find that to be irony at its finest.
The stolen Christmas Tree....the history of religion is amazing.....
Happy Monday, ladies.
0 -
Never mind....deleted what I ranted about... :-)
Elizabeth
0 -
The there are no atheist pediatric neurosurgeons? While I haven't done a study, in my humble opinion, that falls into the same category (i.e. baloney) as "There are no atheists in fox holes."
0 -
Re the Jefferson Bible, has anyone ever read any of the Gnostic gospels? I've only read the Gospel of Thomas but it sounds as though it may be very similar to the Jefferson Bible (which I have not yet read, it's on my shopping list at Amazon along with about 50 other books I want to buy). This Gospel was included in Elaine Pagels' book "Beyond Belief, The Secret Gospel of Thomas" which was a good read.
You all really piqued my history geek curiosity with the discussion of the founding fathers and deism, so I did some quick Internet research and found some interesting things. I wasn't aware that the US signed the Treaty of Tripoli in 1797 which contains a clause expressly stating that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion", and that this treaty was unanimously ratified by the Senate, signed by President John Adams, and was published in the newspapers without apparently causing any uproar from the populace. Here's a link to the treaty: http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html, and here's an interesting discussion of it: http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/buckner_tripoli.html. And another interesting link containing some quotes from our founding fathers: http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html. OK, enough geeky history stuff for now.
0 -
I loved the movie Chocolat also...so much I bought it...
0 -
Madalyn -- It looks like I'll have to return by the end of Nov when COBRA ends and/or if I don't find a job with good insurance. I'm from Canada -- I had my former employer relocate me to the Boston area about 3 years ago to be with a guy I met on the Internet. I'm really sad about leaving my guy and will have to go back to the 7 hour drive to visit every other weekend or so (he can't travel because he has his daughter part of the weekend). I'm trying to focus on all the things that piss me off about him to make it easier. :-)
You cannot imagine the relief I will feel not having to worry about getting healthcare back in Canada!!! And being able to save money for a change! Yeah, I'm drawn to the health care thread like a rubber-necker to an accident...
Chocolat -- loved that movie. Johnny Depp isn't too bad either.
0
