Have any of you found love after your diagnosis and treatment?
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My Bf knew early on about my MS and gave me this big speech about he would take care of me and just do anything for me not matter what it was. Now this is a man who had been married 3 times and 1 long term girlfriend - no chidren or even pets. Well, MS has been pretty much under control, he was great with my son with Down syndrome but earlier in the year before BS I got hit by a door and broke my nose. He was odd in not wanting me to get it fixed. So then when I was worried and scared before the actual diagnosis he was annoyed I was edgy and such and said he didn't get what I was worried about. When I had to spell out getting cancer and losing my breasts and possibly worse - his responce was " well it isn't like you'd die from it". To which I said really tell that to my cousins who lost their Mom to BC. But I still stayed with him... So when it came time for my surgery - well almost missed my surgery cause he didn't want to get up with me and then had to have coffee before we left.
After I came home from surgery - I was pretty out of it and didn't realize he was totally drunk. He was angry that my sisters and cousin were there to help me. Anyway, he came to help me for the first time with the drains and almost pulled them out of my body and on the other side tried to twist off the bulb part of the drain. I was so upset and started yelling for my sisters and cousin. It was so horrible. Then he was going to sleep on the floor on a blow up mattress (supposedly to be near to take care of me) he then pitched a fit that he didn't want to do that. I finally got to sleep and he came in and started blowing up the mattress in the same room and woke me up. .... well I could go on and on.... I did finally end up throwing him out after he hid the saltine crackers so that he could be the only one to give them to me... I mean really weird stuff. Then belive it or not I then later took him back.... So I don't know - more wrong with me I think.
Anyway, he is a musician and I think ego and being narcessistic really plays a big part but I just really didn't know people could be that full of themselves and unable to put someone who just had cancer surgery first. Maybee - I too broke it off but yes it does still hurt a lot and missing the company and the good things we shared.... but trying hard to be strong.
I can't even say he is mean or cruel he is just so self absorbed he just can't see that he isn't as wonderful as he thinks he is. So I'm thinking I need time so not to make the same mistakes.
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ive been in a relationship for almost 2 years. i was diagnosed last march,2011. he says he loves me but he was never at any of my surgeries. i had a diep a couple months ago and was in the hospital for 5 days,he never came to see me. he told me before the surgery that he was afraid he would fall short of what i expected him to help with during my recovery. he helped but kept his distance.i go back and forth 2 hours to my doctors and dont bother asking him to come along anymore because theres always an excuse and it hurts to hear no all the time. i dont know if hes afraid or just selfish,both? hurts anyway
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Afraid or selfish it doesn't really matter, does it? He is not there for you. There is absolutely no excuse for a lover not to visit you in the hospital when you are there for 5 days. T. pulled that - "I'm afraid of your expectations of me as far as your children" as an excuse not to get involved with them too. Not that there aren't good times, there always are, but good times don't make up for unpredictability, shallow behaviors and lack of maturity (I could go on here...) I mean, unless you have absolutely no one else, and you ALWAYS have yourself, what really is the point.
In my case, I wish I would have ended it the week after my mastectomy when he was not around but I was too in shock. So it dragged on.......I think we broke up or were not speaking before i finally said i couldn't take anymore for for 2 1/2 mos., on and off; i was practically suicidal from his games. There was no way to win or be the person he wanted me to be. That was of course a big snow job to avoid committment. He always had problems doing what was expected but I still don't get it. I think with the cancer it meant he would have had to be a real man, and he was basically a child down deep. I have to admit - we had a lot of fun and my life is pretty boring now. He got a new girlfriend a month after we ended.
Stanzie - your story has some familiar undercurrents. Almost like being set up to be angry and then be blamed. Promises and no follow through. Mixed messages. Lack of validation. Callousness and selfishness. Wouldn't you just really rather be alone? I would rather be alone, than hurting, rejected and feeling so confused. i just wish I could get used to being alone......
I am hoping time helps me not to make the same mistakes too. I am pretty hard on myelf for putting up with so much. It's not the first time..........
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Mybee, think about not being so hard on yourself, we all have our patterns of behavior (boy do I) and recognizing them is the first step in changing them xo
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Good Morning Ladies
Hope you are having a wonderful morning. Right now in this part of Florida, it is lovely outside.
Any way, Prince Charming called last evening, and is not coming this weekend because his pump broke on his well and he is repairing it. That is fine. I plan to go out today to dinner and a movie with someone else.
Really why I am posting is___I wanted to share with everyone the characteristics of a Psychopath, Some of the behaviors some of you experienced with these men sound alot like some of my experiences:After going through all the evil behavior with my ex , I started reading about Psychopaths. The ex met most of the criteria. One of the red flags of a psychopath is they are very charming and wonderful at FIRST, but this is a false personality. When the mask comes off, you see the real character of the monster. A very noticable character flaw is that there is no conscience, Also pathological lying, manipulation, callousness, extreme selfishness, impulsivity, gaslighting, blaming and not being responsible. There may be a couple of more symptons but I can't remember them off hand.
Unfortunately, counseling is not effective with this type of monster because they do not have a conscience and it seems they enjoy creating discord
I really hope I never encounter one of these monsters again. Maybe as we discuss our encounters with the opposite sex, we can avoid these evil monsters posing as Mr. Wonderful
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Painted Lady - Thank you, that does help.... I had forgotten the not being responsible for anything. In our time together, he broke the side mirror on my brand new car( not his fault - glued it poorly), broke my grandmother's wine glass(not his fault why was it on the counter to be washed), broke an antique chair of my Mom's(not his fault -he is quite large and he sat on a chair he should have known he was too large to sit on), broke coffee pot(not his fault he was just making coffee and not paying attention) and finally so helpful to fix the vacuume belt that it cost me $250 to have it fixed. Could go on and on..... why saying sorry is do difficult or spending the money to repair things that could be repaired- wouldn't have been so difficult...
Yes, we all do need to avoid making the same mistakes again. My ex was passive aggressive, excellent at gas lighting and manipulation but the biggest one is that he has an attachment disorder which wasn't really sorted out till divorce counceling- no wonder I couldn't ever feel like there was a connection and why I felt so very alone all the time.
Whew.... sorry to have gone on and on.... I guess it is hard for me to belive there are really normal good guys out there. Time.... must just need time. Mybee - we can do this - we both need to get used to being on our own and being ok with it....
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I hear you Stanzie, What is gaslighting?
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I just googled it--creepy. Psychological warfare.
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It is a term from the movie"Gaslight" which is a wonderful old movie- Ingrid Bergman, I believe. It is when someone does things to make you think you are losing your mind. Like moving things, saying you never told them things, just pretty evil stuff so you don't trust yourself or your memory. After I was diagnosed with MS he started telling me how tired I looked and how I wouldn't remember things and he kind of took over... what finally got me to realize everything was when my daughter got really clingy and refused to go anywhere which was very unusual, ended up taking her to a psychologist and she had her draw her family. She drew herself a nice good size, then my ex, then her brothers, then the cat and dog and then finally way way over really tiny on the far corner she drew me in bed. The psychologist said she was distancing me as she thought I was dying. Yep that was a big wake up call!
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Stanzie Wow! You had stuff destroyed too. My ex would deliberately damage things that would be too expensive for us to repair or replace. One example is one time I came in the kitchen to find him cutting cheese with a large knife right on the formica counter top. He made several deep scratches and gouches in the counter. All he had to do was take 2 steps to get the cutting board to put the cheese on. Even worse, this was a brand new countertop!
Lovemyfamily The doctor told him not to smoke in the garage or car. He promised that he would(I get pneumonia easily). I smelled cigarrette smoke when I went into the laundry room. I opened the door to the gargage and there he was smoking away. He didnt notice me until I said "Why are you smoking". To my question he insisted that he was not smoking and I was insane and just wanted to argue with him. (Gaslighting)
My stomach twists when I think of all the emotional and psychological abuse I took from him.
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Yikes! What one earth is wrong with these men? Do you think their Mom's just let them get away with anything and everything??
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Wow. Speaking of breaking things, I asked T. to cut some roses for me as I was having family for dinner. I handed him my Waterford vase (I owned nothing else like it) and he came back with it in pieces. Says he set it on the grass and it tipped over, hit a rock and broke. This from a man who was an engineer, licensed builder, had no end of practical common sense. I bring this up because I just thought of it again yesterday due to the gorgeous weather and wondered if it was deliberate. Then I read your post Stanzie. He was a liar, but subtly and kind of a gaslighter too. Lots of tricks up his sleeve. I keep getting flashbacks of things that happened or were said and have a flash of new perception and understanding. It happens probably every other day. I think it is almost PTSD. Psychological warfare is a good way to put it. Psychological and emotional abuse is another. So I guess not being there for BC is just another tool to emotionally abuse, really unrelated to the cancer itself. It has everything to do with him/them and their sick need to abuse. At the end I confronted him with his narcissistic, abusive ways through emails and articles. In our last ever conversation, he admitted it was all true, then went back in his condo to spend time with his new victim.
T. has a new GF. She is so poor, vulnerable, I think disabled, and naive. Just coming out of a 30 yr. marriage and a friend fixed them up, because he presents as Mr. Wonderful to the rest of the world. My son said he realized he needed to try his games on someone less savvy than myself (who fought with him too much). I tried to contact her and warn her and he went to the police, who called and said I couldn't contact any of his friends or family or he would charge me with harassment. So I set up a FB photo album that is open to the public. It's all the pics we took on vacations, holidays, etc. We went some great places. But in the final pics I talk about how he wasn't there for me with my BC. It has helped me to process and I have gotten A LOT of positive feedback from people, some I hardly know.
Stanzie - I too struggle with wondering if there are any normal guys out there that are not taken. Every normal guy I know is married. And I think I have new insight and could avoid them this time, I really do, but I think it would take a long time to find one. Maybe a widow?
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This has turned into an amazing thread..............
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Stanzie - I think it comes from hatred toward their Mom's. They were either abused, abandoned, neglected, dominated or something. Or maybe behaviors were modelled and they learned that it was acceptable to do this kind of thing to women.
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Hi Ladies
I would like your opinion on something: In another post I mentioned that i was going to dinner and movies with a date.He brought up that he looks at other women and that was okay with his former wife (he is a widower). I told him if he thinks it is okay that is fine, but I find it offensive.
He called me a couple of hours ago and I did not answer. I just sent him a message through POF
that "I find it offensive and will not tolerate it. I am looking for someone that only has eyes for me"
Do you all find this behavior rude and offensive? or am I in the minority?
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What do you mean by "looks at other women"? Glances at them when you are out together, looks at porn or cheats?
I can see where you are coming from. Me, it doesn't bother unless that I feel it is demeaning to me. My DH was faithful all of our time together and when we were out and I saw a beautiful woman I would point her out to him. But remember, he was 20 years older than I was so I would always look good in his eyes. That's a definite plus when you marry an older man. No matter how old looking you get, you're always going to look better than he does!
Had a third date with "Tony". He came to my house for corned beef & cabbage. He's introverted, similar to me, and he seems very nice and respectful and very old world Italian to some extent. I still haven't told him about the BC but I saw him looking at the dent in my chest above my left implant so I guess I'm going to have to say something pretty soon. Then I'll see what kind of a man he really is.
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At the restaurnat every time a woman walked by, he would look at the women.
It just makes me very anxious when a man does this. I cant help it. My stomach actually feels like it is twisting.
He kept expressing a desire to see me again, but the roving eyes but an end to seeing him again in my mind. I tried getting rid of him by telling him that I had bc, but it didn't seem to faze him
Denise Do you like the guy? Are you attracted to him? Guess that would determine if I told him or not.
I mean if I liked the guy I would want to know where he was with the issue
Diagnosis: 9/15/2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage II, 0/1 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Yeah, I'm attracted to him and I like him. Just don't know if I see a future with him but these days I don't see me having a future with anyone.
If the guy's roving eyes bother you and it's a deal breaker then you did the right thing by telling him adios.
Had my granddaughter part of today and all tomorrow so I need to go nighty night so I can get up for church. You wonderful ladies have a good, restful Sunday.
D.
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Yes I am wondering too....do you like him? A third date is moving along a bit............
I couldn't be with a man who looked at other women like that. Seems rude. Anyway - I am not secure enough for that. But the most important thing is that it bugs you and that is okay. Move on..........
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Stanzie - How long have you been on your own now?
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Good night Denise thanks for the post
Mybee Do you think most men do this roving eye thing. I have been out to restaurants with couples and I don't see their husbands doing that to their wives.
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No I don't. No one i have ever dated has done this because I would break up with them if they did. T. had a good friend, man now in his 70's who flirted shamelessly with waitresses. It was funny and entertaining but in the car I told T. how I didn't know how she had put up with it all these years (35+). He shrugged it off but a couple years later, after another evening with them, he admitted that it had caused a lot of problems in their marriage. I know another couple where this is their biggest issue! He refuses to stop and she won't move forward with their engagement unless he stops. He seems to feel it's his last bit of freedom or something. I think that's what underlies it. Kind of like - you're not going to stop me from being a he man or something. Idk.....
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How did this come up? Did you notice he was looking at someone and mentioned it to him? Or did he bring it up himself? If he brought it up himself he certainly wants to keep doing it. Either way, I wouldn't like it.
I'm sure my ex looked too, but I never caught him at it until one day at the beach he said "Look at that cute bikini on that girl. You would look good in that" Mmmm, very tricky. Now he could look at her for a while longer with a clear conscience. Men!
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So I was reading about Narcissists and came across this: Intimacy terrifies a Narcissist, and he will respond by being abusive in order to push you away.
So for those of us who felt abandoned at our time of greatest need.........I think this may be it. If a man is incapable of or terrified of emotional intimacy, he would naturally push you away at the time you need that type of sharing and love and compassion more than ever. The intimacy demands are just too great. And with someone who had NO insight, of course the woman gets the blame. And the BC/mastectomy.
T. is moving to another county, a place he told me he would never, ever live. His reputation because of his treatment of me, is not good around here, an area he has lived all of his life. I guess he's looking to make a fresh start. I was always so afraid I'd run into him somewhere. It's hard to think of never seeing someone ever again but it is a blessing. It has me a bit unravelled....
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Hi Ladies
Dog he brought it up out of the blue. I did notice him looking every time a female went by as we were having dinner. When I noticed the behavior then I had no intentions of seeing him again.
He left me a message today that was "I only have eyes for you" Yeah, right lol
He then called and left a message and asked me to call him this evening. In the phone message he justified the behavior. I did not call him and I don't intend to. The way I see it, the behavior is unacceptable and no excuse is going to make it acceptable
Mybee Isn't that crazy for guys to wreck their marriage just so they can act like a teenager in heat
Well nothing is going on tonight. No plans for anything later in the week. I haven't heard from the
guy from Naples since Friday night. I wonder if he changed his mind about driving 4 hours one way.
Geez I just want to find a sensitive, honest caring guy Why is it so darn hard
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Painted - Mr. roving eye sounds like he likes to play a lot of games.......
So I was reading about Narcissists and came across this: Intimacy terrifies a Narcissist, and he will respond by being abusive in order to push you away.
So for those of us who felt abandoned at our time of greatest need.........I think this may be it. If a man is incapable of or terrified of emotional intimacy, he would naturally push you away at the time you need that type of sharing and love and compassion more than ever. The intimacy demands are just too great. And with someone who had NO insight, of course the woman gets the blame. And the BC/mastectomy.
T. is moving to another county, a place he told me he would never, ever live. His reputation because of his treatment of me, is not good around here, an area he has lived all of his life. I guess he's looking to make a fresh start. I was always so afraid I'd run into him somewhere. It's hard to think of never seeing someone ever again but it is a blessing. It has me a bit unravelled....
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Mybee
Just read your recent post. Have you by chance googled info on psychopaths. Dr. Hare gives a list of behaviors of a psychopath. You are right it is a blessing that you will not have him bugging you.
Hopefully, none of us will meet any more of these selfish men and if we do encounter them we will see the red flags asap
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I know quite a bit about all of the personality disorders; I work in mental health. But love is blind.
He would never bug me because he knows he could never con me again. He was over me within a few weeks.
This evening I am searching to find forgiveness in my heart because I know that is the only way that I will find peace.
Well.....we enter into another week. For myself, I could use another weekend
Always so much to do. Good nite my friends.
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Painted Lady- I'm so sorry. I'm glad you are not putting up with that behavior. It almost sounds like he is proud of it. Weird.
Mybee- I'm afraid I haven't been on my own very long at all. Almost a month is all.... Glad I have my kids every other weekend, that helps a lot!
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Hi sisters,
Saw Franklin yesterday--of course I initiated it--despite my therapists and friends advice that I leave it alone. Actually we had a good talk, and I was able to get alot off my mind that really made me feel closer to being able to let this thing go. He said that he would prefer if I did not psychoanalyze him--I am a therapist--so this was good feedback for me to focus on MY thoughts and behavior and not spend so much time figuring him out. Do you guys know what I mean? Wish I had the willpower to leave him alone. I try to be kind to myself and know that we are all works in progress--but when I can see clearly, I realize that I need to let it go. I will get there!! Love to all my bc sisters as we get through this together!! xo
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