CONSTIPATION--problem with so many of our drugs
Comments
-
Sassy - good advice about seeing a Nephrologist for low GFR. Ironically, low numbers can be temporary and not that serious, and easily reversible - OR - a sign of more serious kidney damage. Better to understand WHY the GFR is low. Mine was low due to diuretics, my sister's is low due to dehydration, and DH's is low due to kidney disease.
RE Constipation.... another perspective...
~ ~ ~
I was having my weekly acupuncture treatment on
Monday, and my Acupuncturist (graduated from Eastern Medical School in China,
licensed Acupuncture and Traditional Chinese Medicine practioner, and PhD) was
telling me about a patient she was treating for constipation.She said that each organ in the body has a time of
day where the energy is the strongest, like the tides of the ocean.The high chi/energy period for the large intestine
is from 5 a.m. to 7 a.m. This is the optimum time to move the bowels.She told her patient to get up each morning between
5 and 7, and drink two full glasses of water, either hot, or at room
temperature. She said she would need his participation in order for the
acupuncture to work. (I think he will have his second treatment this week.)I’ve been getting acupuncture for nine months now…. It
was very helpful with joint pain from the AIs, and lower back pain, and now is
resolving the balance issues I have from a head injury.My DH gets acupuncture for his incurable kidney
disease. We don’t expect the acupuncture to cure all that ails us, but we are
committed to “Total Body Health”… in other words, we are doing everything we
can to take the burden off certain organs and body parts, so that they are not
under so much strain. (OT - His kidney function has improved since starting
acupuncture!)Here is a chart of the peak energy times for organs
in the body.http://newdirectionnaturalmedicine.com/chinese-organ-clock/
From the site:
“It is recommended to drink a glass
of warm lemon juice to stimulate the bowels, get the lymph system moving and to
remove toxins from the night’s cleansing.” I think they mean during the peak energy times.May be worth a try…. (note: I do not take Chinese herbs.)
0 -
Hi Blessings, So true about the bowel evacuation. There's a name for the reflex, but I forget it. The wave begins in the muscular portion of the esophagus, the wave goes to the end of the colon with pressure at the rectum. Used to teach patients the same thing as your Acupuncturist. But would suggest that what ever their awaking time was, if they had to leave for work consider waking up a half hour to an hour earlier. Do the water and lemon, then when they felt the signal--GO. Too many people delay the signal and then have trouble going. It does naturally occur in the am, but can be retrained to different times.In nursing school, had a visiting instructor who had a colostomy. Her colon was so well trained, she didn't wear a bag. That's belief
0 -
Oh Bird, how awful for your friends Mom and the family. The hard part is that bowel impaction is very painful and before rupture is very intense. I wrote some stuff on Diverticulosis on page one and then a smattering of posts throughout these pages as it applies to colon problems. With the elderly(actually any age) that can't communicate b/c of altered mentally status, tracking BM's is very important for the reason you describe. In an earlier post I described, if I had patient with new onset behavior change, part of the assessment was determining if they were impacted or not. Condolences to the family.As far as the research here, what's nice is..... if we feel like doing it, we do, if we don't, we don't
Take care0 -
Regretfully, need to add another reason for rectal itch. Eczema. There are several conditions that affect the vulva and rectal area, that fall under the classification of Eczema. Lichen Planus, Lichen dermatitis, Lichen sclerosus and more. Psoriasis can be a culprit too. They present much like a yeast infection. But when biopsied a definitive dx is made. The treatment is topical steroid. I have found bag balm is very good adjunct. There are multiple sources for info on the internet. I'm linking to the Harvard one b/c I liked it the best, but there are many sources.Some predisposing factors: Hypothyroid, autoimmune dysfunction, allergic response, adrenal stress(right up our alley), history of frequent antibiotics, IBD, reduced immune state from chemo, and more. When Jill and I were posting here this wasn't on my radar. Since RAI-131 treatment for Thyroid cancer, trust me it's been on my radar. It's incredibly uncomfortable, but I had a clue right away. I had the DX of Lichen sclerosus from last summer. It was an incidental finding when I asked Derm doc to do a vulva exam. It wasn't bothering me then, but after Rai whew. Wish we'd known about it when Jill was here. Never know, may have been the source of her problem.
Some things I learned. Not all Dermatologist Docs are used to doing vulva/rectal exams. Seems like it should be part of a head-to-toe exam. It may or may not be depending on the Derm. After my Derm doc scared the bejebbers out of me with yet another cancer scare, she tells me it's not her usual modis operandi and suggested going to a GYN doc. Sure wish she'd said that up front. Thyroid and vulva bx's were coming back on the same day. She didn't relate that it wasn't her usual thing, until we were going over the results.
When I first searched it after initial problem after Rai, not much was coming up. Now oodles. A best approach for dx is a GYN doc that has experience. Ask prior to making an appointment. If it isn't controlled, seek out a Vulva clinic. See info in the Harvard link. Asking that a dermpatholigist read the biopsy is within reason. It is mentioned in multiple sources.
Hope this helps Sassy
0 -
Oh my goodness Sassy. Thanks for the new information. I'm seeing my OB/Gyn next month & I'll surely have a discussion with her.
0 -
Hi MT, rather meet at Pinktober than here LOL. I reposted the above from Rectal Issue thread. I have a link in the topic box to the RI thread. But figured it was appropriate here too, not everyone swings over to the rectal issues thread.One in thirty women are dx'd with the problem. We fit the profile so much b/c of the stress related events. I'm just getting real tired of having all this weird stuff, that most never hear of, yet is a bigger problem than we know. When I first searched the computer didn't pull much. Same search terms as later, but the computer gremlins got working. Now lots of info.
But when I first looked at it, it was only pulling forums where women were searching for answers. Many went for years without a proper dx. No DX, no proper treatment.
Nice to see you
0 -
Bump0 -
bump0 -
bump0 -
Bump
0 -
I have read and reread this topic when in my time of need. So far it has never failed me, I can always find something that works. Sas, thanks for starting this thread. Sending good thoughts
0 -
I'm in agreement. Wonderful thread. I keep meaning to bump if it gets too far down the list of my favorites. I'll have to do better.
I actually took Colace for a full year. Once I got past the Big D during a year of chemos, of course I swung the other way. I finally stopped Colace in December. I seem to be OK if I remember to eat a green salad every day, or a plate of raw cauliflower, radishes, carrots & whatever. Of course I stopped all the rest of my supplements too while preparing for a bunch of tests. Wonder what will happen when I start all those back up again?
Thanks SAS.
0 -
Gentianviolet & Minus two------Thanks
What impressed me with members suggestions when I did a look at all suggestions about page 8(?). Was that the the apricots and prunes ---stewed were the most successful. But just as you say Gentian when there's a problem and things aren't working, you went back and took another look. A phrase I coined in the 70's was "Just when you think you know something, it's good to go back and take another look"When a thread is technical, it reaches a "What else can you say point". To often I think newbies, may not realize reading from the beginning on technical threads has a wealth of info. We" bump", and they think it's a dead thread..
When I did this thread in the beginning, BCO didn't have a Constipation thread. They do now for some while, but they are proper, no puns. We, bless us, are irreverent and can make jokes.
Here's to a better go
0 -
Venetian & MinusTwo. There are puns here that I would swear were stolen by the TP industry.this is one------:) Here's to a better go
0 -
Genetian----------Pm me if you have need of help. I'm a retired nurse with 40 years of experience. I bridge the old and new and if I don't know I research i.e about Senna............read till my eyes turned brown.
0 -
SAS - thanks for my Saturday laughs!!!
I agree - There are several threads I started back & read from the beginning and still go back to when I can't remember or want to try something different. This one is a real keeper.
0 -
Sas - this has been in my favorites since you started it. Although at that time fiber pills were what worked, but that only lasted for a year or two. Currently the 1 cup applesauce, 1/2 cup prune juice mixed with Go Raw original granola (my personal granola choice because it has 6 g of fiber) has been the perfect answer. If or when that no longer works I will start all over on page one of the constipation thread and try a new one. I will send you a PM; I do have a few questions. LOL at your comment of your eyes turning brown. Thanks
0 -
I need some help how to control the bleeding from C, I have hemarroids, but the bleeding seems to be inside the passage. I 've been taking colace, activia yogurt and papayas. Should I take more meds, I am scared to turn it into D. Any suggestions appreciated.
0 -
Blueflowers --sorry you have such a problem. NOT comfortable, pain in the patutty.
There are several things that need to be addressed with your post
1. Has a GI(gastrointestinal doc) evaluated you? They are the most qualified. If there are hemorrhoids, that means there is enough pressure within the lower colon to cause diverticulosis. The GI doc would recommend a colonoscopy. To rule out diverticulosis or polyps which can also bleed. I wrote extensively on diverticulosis and diverticulitis on page one.
2. In your case, I suggest reading the entire thread, jot down some notes to talk with GI doc. I'm pretty positive you have already read the entire thread, but now your specific goal is to identify those that are bleeding or have a bleeding history. In the presence of bleeding a high fiber is not good. Reason too much pressure on an area that's weak for what ever reason. This could lead to rupture. You would want to be on a low residue diet until you get direct orders from the GI doc.
3. I would like to give you a suggestion(s), but until I hear that the GI doc has given you the go ahead to use high fiber, miralax, you are at risk for problems.
4. In the short haul until you see your GI doc. Are you taking any drugs that cause constipation? How often do you take the Colace? Papaya, there was something that I wrote a few pages back. Something I hesitated about papaya. See if you can find it
How much water? Did you try the warm water with lemon in early am? Have you had C all you life? Did it start with BC tx.? Blueflowers, you may post back that the whole GI workup has been done. If so what did the doc say to do? I'll keep an eye out sassy
0 -
Thanks sas-schatzi…,
I just saw my pcp for another issue, and talked to her regarding the C - she advised me to have lots of fluids, metamucil or something and colace for now, I am in the middle of my chemo treatment. Once this is done I will see a GI.I have gone through this thread but have to read it again with more attention.
I had the hemorrhoids before but didn't bleed regularly, now with chemo and everything I have to deal with so much stuff.
0 -
Blue, I was afraid you might say the MO and or PCP advised something. Please, get a GI appointment asap. Bleeding during chemo can get you into a mess. C the same. Because you had a history of C with hemorrhoids, doesn't mean these are hemorrhoids.
Don't do fiber. Don't do Miralax with open bleeding areas, questionable absorption through the tissue.
Water you need to flush out chemo --a two for one treatment.
If you can set a morning waking time the same time every morning. Take 2-3 warm glasses of water with lemon. If coffee is a trigger , do that too. Stewed prunes etc. Then wait. Pull out all the stops on getting this under control.
In the early morning there is a natural evacuation wave. If your not awake for it, it goes unheeded. It's a pain to get up early, but this is hard wired into the body from thousands and thousands of years. Mine was always 5 minutes before leaving the house for work. I think my trigger was thinking about working LOL.
The GI doc will give you the most definitive advise. Plus, if you get into anything serious, you have him on board and knowledgeable about your condition.
Ask around about the GI doc. Just as with all docs, reputation is everything. It may work to get you in faster by having the MO or PCP get the referral done. Sometimes it works.
0 -
Blue, your PCP's advise of 'lots of fluids, metamucil or something and colace for now". If that came from the GI doc, I'd be comfortable. Don't want to sound like chicken little, but constipation isn't simple. Wrong treatment can have disasterous results. For example, high fiber in the presence of an acute diverticulitis episode can cause a rupture of the colon and need of a colostomy. Constipation does not have a one size fits all approach. Believe it or not it can be very complicated.Blue at the top of this page Blessings describes the morning period I'm referring too
0 -
Blueflowers - hope you'll listen to Sassy. She's seen it all. A GI doc is critical.
If you post what city or state you are in maybe someone can come up with a GI recommendation.
In the mean time, I think you'll be OK asking for an extra liter of fluid at each infusion. SAS? That made a lot of difference for me.
0 -
Thanks SAS and MinusTwo,
I have another appt with my oncologist in two days, I am going to ask for a referal to a GI. I am in Los Angeles, South Bay, but with my hmo insurance going to any doctor is not an option. I am reading this thread meticulously and going to on top of this now. Thanks ladies for your advice.
0 -
Minus Two
, Great suggestion on the extra IV fluids. If there is no cardiovascular reason for not using it. It may help. OR Going the next day. May help. Or/and when she goes in for lab check and neulasta/neupogen. I know DH frequently had to get fluids. Hmmm. may be a series over the post chemo days.You bring back a memory. Dh besides having to get fluids was always low on Magnesium. No one could answer why at the time. So much was going on the thought fell away. Raises questions. Will try to take a look tomorrow.
0 -
Hi Sas - It is not that I don't have the current problem of constipation somewhat under control. Once I started the fiber/applesauce/prune juice combo both morning and night, things began to move at a normal pace. But what has seemed to happen in the past is that I find something that works and within a year more or less, it seems to become ineffective.
I only had problems on occasion usually related to calcium pills (used several thread suggestions) and it would seem to work. However once I found I had to wear a pessary (my choice of no surgery) solving the problem long term became more urgent. The pessary is the correct size (have gone through 3 different sizes and types).
I guess what I am asking is if one becomes immune to their choice of laxatives? Is it normal to have to change up choices to keeps the body's rhythm? If so then I want to start looking into plan B now so that I don't go through days of the pessary making life miserable.
Again thanks for taking the time to read this and a very big thank you for what has turned out to be one of the most helpful threads at BCO for me. I value your commitment and research.
Edited to add Sassy's response to my PM, with her permission.
"Barbara, Yes it's normal for the body to get used to things. Having a plan B is good. AND a plan C LOL. Plan C for me is magnesium Citrate. But then I have the squirts for a couple of days. Barb think about putting this(your question & my answer) on the board. Never know when someone reading has this identical problem. Plus, the concept of Plan A, B, and C has been mentioned. Always good to hear more than one member doing similar things."
0 -
In terms of a "plan B," I'd like to recommend a product that I have been using recently. Not sure if it is good for long term use, but it really does a good job in the short term.
0 -
Gentian Thanks for reposting. Just when it seems someone doesn't have the same problem, someone does.
BTW I know you know Gentian Violet is an old, but still used drug treatment. LOL or is it a flower? Why did you pick it as an avatar? I'm me and my dog (long story). BlueF. Great on getting the referral. Ask the MO if he has a personal favorite for excellence in the group approved. All medical professionals are cautioned about recommending an individual b/c if something goes wrong then there is a preceived liability question. Most practioners will give you 3 choices. All else fails in the questioning, ask who they go to OR who they would send there mother too?
I thought about you allot in the last couple of days. I thought I should give you more reasons re: my concern.
With a break of the lining of the wall anywhere in the colon, there is a potential for bacteria to enter the body through that break. We generally refer to them as micro-tears. A break in the tissue somewhere in the colon is evidenced by red blood. You know you have a history of Hemorrhoids. Hemorrhoids occur because of pressure created in the rectal vault( above anus) by dry stool that is difficult to pass. This pressure causes the vessels in that area to dilate and sometimes protrude through the anus. Can be very uncomfortable. They also can bleed minimally, or profusely depending on how dilated they are, and how much they tear as hard stool passes by.
In the presence of chemo drugs that lower immunity, these breaks can set us up for a sepsis problem. Sepsis is a infection in the blood stream. The normal immune system can keep this in check. The compromised system may not.. So while bleeding hemorrhoids are common in a portion of the adult population. They are more serious in the immuno-comprimised population.
If hemorrhoids are present, an important rule out (R/O) is whether there are diverticula in the lower colon. The lower colon is the portion of the large colon that includes the left side of the large colon and the sigmoid colon. The higher the problem the danger of complications occur. Rarely Diverticula can occur in other regions of the colon. See page 1 for a full discussion for the new reader.
In a normal patient i.e non immunocomprimised, an enema or suppository is used to soften the stool in the rectal vault. The rectal vault is that portion of the far end of the colon right before the anus. The use of suppositories and enemas ( Fleets/ Mineral oil etc) Is contraindicated( laymen's words---a no no) in the immune-comprimised . The reason is the insertion of either can lead to micro-tears and resultant systemic infection.
Does this make my concerns re: your hemorrhoids clearer?
0 -
Just for some relief of constipation directly to the bizarre funhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cNRkQJcnUk
0 -
And now to share my lovely journey with constipation. I suffered with it for years and tried everything. My doctors prescribed everything you can imagine and nothing worked. I wish I had remembered black strap molasses because my grandmother gave it to us for years and it worked. But, well you know cancer brain. I began to get sicker and sicker and kept having fever. Went back to the doctors and was told I had diverticulitis and given antibiotics and sent home. Then, while my husband was on a camping trip, something told me to get my butt to the ER. My intestines had ruptured and I was septic. I was in the hospital for 19 days and had 2 1/2 feet of my intestines removed and a colostomy. I wasn't supposed to come out except in a hearse. My family had been called in and the staff told them to prepare for the worst. I didn't know any of this because I was in Demerol Land. Needless to say, I survived and had the colostomy removed 7 months later. My chest and abdomen now look like a Frankenstein experiment gone horribly wrong. But I'm alive. I'm not making light of constipation. It can kill you! If you are having any GI problems, don't ignore them or hope they'll get better. Please don't stop until you've gotten the treatment you need. This was the worst nightmare of my life. Yeah, even worse than BC, but God got me through it and I thank Him everyday. Don't just depend on doctors, do your own research. This thread will give you tons of information and Sas knows of which she speaks! Happy Pooping, Everyone!
0
