CONSTIPATION--problem with so many of our drugs
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Judi, so hAppy he is competent YAY. Please let us know how it goes.( they're is that pun again)
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Now that I've remembered that a gin & tonic in the evening always worked for me before BC, I've started that again and been able to quit the prunes & the Colace. The magic of Juniper Berries!!!
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Sas-schatzi, day 2 of meds almost over. Don't know if I like this BLAND diet. Seems I'm eating a lot of saltine crackers and Kraft peanuts butter. But on day 1 after 2 pills, no problem with constipation. We'll see what this day beholds!
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MT on kindle typing abysmal
Yay juniper berries, I'm having liquid grapes
Judi go girl......kill those suckers. Euphemism they are bacteria or something not suckers.
Terrible story about suckers- 's. ascaris nematodes. I WAS WIPinG A BUTT IN 1971. This thing wiggled, I grabbed it. Had the other student nurse call the instructor. Instructor Said let me see......duh, I let go it could go back in, I'm just going to pull I out. About ten inches long. Went to pathology. Next day all these big wig docs came in and questioned patient. He'd been I'm a foreign country.
I give up trying to type wi 500th kindle auto correct is a nightmare. I will come back when I have my co.outer back
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Sas-schatzi, Giardia is truly a parasite. I'm feeling good on the meds and haven't turned "yellow" or "brown" like the doc said I might. This med is to treat Giardia that is anti-biotic resistant!
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Judi - do they think you picked it up on your Africa trip? I think I remember you can get it from water contaminated by animal feces. No more drinking from mountain streams.
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MT, I picked up Giardia many years ago while vacationing in Mexico. I truly think that I got it from brushing my teeth with the water. We stayed at a place where a lot of teachers/principals stay at - a family run small inn like place. Obviously not a good choice but my brother-law researched the place and said it was good and cheap. That's the only thing I can think of but I was sick in late August/early September prior to going. I was so tired and run down. Maybe my system was good at receiving the parasite and voila I got sick 7 days after returning home from Mexico. I did many treatments of Flagyl but it was unsuccessful. This infectious disease doctor said that a lot has to do with the diet when taking meds to kill Giardia and no other doctor said anything to me about this including an infectious disease doctor out of a hospital. This doctor used to be the head of a big lab company so I totally trust him. The Quinacrine is used to kill Giardia in those that are Flagyl resistant which I think that's what happened to me. I feel totally fine taking these meds and haven't turned "yellow or brown" yet. This drug was also used in WWII for soldiers who picked up bugs.
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MT in the USA, Giardia is generally associated with well water. I had two patients and a friends kid. All were well water folks. There is a thing that well water should be chlorinated at intervals----there's a routine. In fact from my nursing and real estate days. When buying a property that's on well water, the county were I used to live had to have a county(state) test, but that didn't cover everything. Anyone buying a property with well water should research ---bacteria, metals, other stuff. Just sticking the thought out here. Not into researching it.
Judy heres' hoping this WORKS. time to be done with that buggar. Parasite, like latch on type? That round worm(nematode) I caught out of that poor guys butt. My question to the doc was "what did it mean re: the patients health if the adult parasite let go?" Doc had no answer. UGH. Interesting.......... Judy, keep us up on your situation.
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Sas-sachzi, I will keep you posted. Only 3 more days of these drugs and then "goodbye drugs". The only pill I will be taking will be my cancer pill which I forgot to take the other night. Seems like my brain will only function on one pill a day. But my question to you is that I'm so bloated and haven't had a good, decent bowel movement since Wednesday. Doctor told me "no metamucil". Can you think of anything else I can take?
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Let me look at the drug in daily med, I will ultimately suggest you call your doc--Always the safest. But when I make a call like that I do try to have suggestions ready. Say there's two things that are recommended and I have one on hand. I don't want him to suggest the one I don't have on hand.
ESPECIALLY in your unusual case. It's taken soooooooooo long to find a doc that has a clue. That phone call to him is very important. be back in about 10 minutes or less It's now 9:04 EST.
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Judy, diarrhea is the usual s.e ...No mention of constipation. This source discusses abdominal cramping when used with vaginal instillation. How old are you chickie? Where are you? This drug isn't supposed to be available in USA or Canada??????http://www.drugs.com/mmx/quinacrine-hydrochloride.html
Looking for more info I'll post what I find. But I suggest that you call your doc. This is an unusual drug. Safest to talk to him.
more info
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Judy what other drug(s) are you taking? When you read the info in the first link about sterilization, don't freak. Read the WIKI info . The drug has to be placed directly into the uterus for that function. The drug is actually in clinical trials for sterilization alternative to laproscopy.
It has some weird s.e.'s that are normal for the drug, but could be alarming if you don't know about them. i.e can turn sclera(whites of the eyes) yellow---normal for drug, you should not be alarmed and it's not permanent. Can discolor nails----normal for drug and is not permanent. Can cause some psych problems--tell your DH to let you know if you are acting strange.
Of course, that one will be difficult if you are strange to begin with LOL.
If you read more s.e.'s you want explained. Post.
edit: Sorry judi lame attempt to not have you worry.
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SAS - of course we're all strange to begin with or we wouldn't be posting here. LOL. How about the term "unique". I'm certainly that too & sounds more exciting.
Of course Judi should call her doc, but it's a long holiday weekend in Canada so they're probably out on lake. In the mean time, is there any reason Judi couldn't drink prune juice or eat 3 prunes? I know how terrible I feel after 3 days. Or is there some reason not to use Colace, which I understand is non-habit forming?
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MT & JUDI my lovelies First rule of medicine is: Do no harm. Second rule of medicines is: Listen to your patients and they will tell you what's wrong. Just threw that in because it is the second rule. I'm going to make up a third rule---Don't tread where you haven't got a clue.
Abdominal cramping can be a s.e. of this drug. Constipation is not a usual s.e. diarrhea is. Judy your doc was emphatic no Metamucil. I have no clue his reasoning. I could posit a couple of reasons, but that's way way different than knowing. I.e. metamucil may absorb the drug and prevent it from working. You are in an unusual situation. I agree you need to get unplugged. It may be as simple as prunes or senna. But seriously, you need the doc to make the choice. You make a wrong choice and it blows your colon out, your not going to be a happy camper. That's an extreme example an not likely by any stretch. You have been suffering with this for a long time. Do the right thing chickie.
If you had an ordinary narcotic induced backup, you could take your choice of suggestions here.
Doc's ALWAYS leave someone on call.
Call his number. The answering service will get ahold of him or whomever is covering call. Yeah, they will likely say something simple. But that will be from a position of knowing not guessing. Hundreds of thousands of errors are committed each year for many varied reasons. Doing something without REALLY knowing is one type.
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Ah --hah call the Pharmacist. They have different references available to them, if you can't get the doc on call.
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Judi Hootie Hoo. Where'd you end up?
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Sas-schatzi, thanks for all your research and help. Had a small movement today so I'm not going to stress about this. You are absolutely right, one small error and the drug is nil and void. I only have 2 days left. I loved to tell you that I'm 29 but in reality, I'm turning 60 this year. I live north of Toronto, in Ontario, Canada. I'm probably 1 hour from T.O. and 30 minutes from Orangeville. In all honesty, I haven't had the side effects mentioned other then my urine is more yellow. Isn't this a good conversation. MT is right, it is a holiday in Canada so no one is around. MT no prunes, metamucil, etc. Sas-schatzi is right - doc doesn't want the drug wasting away in my stool. Doc said not to resample until 3 weeks have passed so I'm guessing that I could still be shedding the bugger out. Usually, it is 3 days after and then 3 samples taken 48 hours after. I'm going with this doc's recommendation as if I submit a stool sample and I'm + then I would probably give up. Oh yeah, Sas-schatzi the only other med I take is my cancer med - Letrozole and I'm finished with that in January, 2016. Yippee!
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Judi, glad something moved. Such talk . butbutt here comes some more. That portion of stool right in the rectal vault above the anus is the most troublesome in constipation. It can become so dry it literally is a plug. In normal people who aren't immunocomprimized the suppository Dulcolax or the fleets enemas are a first choice because of this plug. These drugs placed directly into the vault area soften that plug. If a person is prone to constipation, straining to pass that plug can lead to internal and external hemorrhoids. I mention now, only because I've never talked about it before in quite this way. Regretfully, it is ABSOLUTELY the wrong drugs to use for anyone in a immunocomprimised state because of the possibility of micro-tears of the area.
I ran across an article that gave a complete 'everything current in the demographics and management of Giardia'. I linked it then took it out. It truly was icky to read. But I have decided to link it. Apparently, Giardi is a much bigger problem in the States and Canada than I realized. I suggest you read it to assure that there is nothing that you are being exposed to that's causing the problem to continue. Falls under "Make No Assumptions" category that it was mexico. Mexico sounds reasonable. but I think you get the drift?
For anyone else reading this Giardia is a special lab test. It won't be picked up without a special order to do the specific test. For anyone having diarrhea for greater than 3 weeks it should be tested.
I used to work with three GI docs at my old hospital. Only one of the three automatically tested for Giardai on first contact of a patient with diarrhea troublesome enough that a GI consult was made. Since I had previous contact with giardia, I was impressed with his approach.
Judi , the article linked has the most complete description of Quinacrine. Also, there are a few other drugs available. Quinacrine was taken off the market in the USA I believe in 1991(date is in the article). It doesn't say why. It does Identify that it is still available for resistant cases.
The reason I asked about age, the first article, talked about causing sterilization without details. The second article gave a full description of how it is being studied for that reason. The route of administration is totally different-- Uterine versus oral. Big omission in the first article.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC88965/
The article is from 2001. It's old, but nothing else popped that covered all that is included in tis article. It was probably a seminal study when it was first published.
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Sas-Shatzi, I think I have read this article but will do so again. The drug was specially compounded by a pharmacist because of exactly what you said. Drug is not available in Canada or the U.S. I don't know if I would wait 3 weeks if I was having diarrhea but that being said, I did wait 3 weeks because I didn't have all of the symptoms of Giardia and absolutely no diarrhea. All I had was very yellow, smelly stool and being a health inspector, I should have been on top of that has it is one of the symptoms. I'm thinking that after the last of this drug tomorrow (yup 7 days have passed) that I'll wait to see what happens. But I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow to discuss my diverticulosis and what's next. Also, get the results of my colonoscopy.
Yup, just looked at the article and this was the one I read. Nasty little bugger but since Giardia can be resistant to Flagyl in some individuals, I'm on the side that I was one of the those people. I took at least 5 rounds of Flagyl including the super version and no go. I feel really confident on this drug and luckily no side effects.
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Judi, interesting no diarrhea as a presenting symptom. Yet most first world countries, diarrhea is a presenting s/s.
Well... we are hoping that the bug is dead, but a thought comes to mind which is now hopefully only a theory and can't be tested. When you next meet with that wonderful infectious disease doc ask him if the genome of Giardia from different parts of the world has been mapped. Yours was resistant to Flagyl. Was it resistant because it's genome had evolved differently enough to allow it to avoid being killed.
As you know MRSA and the other superbugs in the first world countries developed resistance because of overuse of antibiotics, antifungals etc. But Mexico is considered a third world country. Theoretically, Mexican Giardia wouldn't have been exposed to Flagyl on a significant level to cause resistance. Therefore, should have been sensitive. But it wasn't.
If that thought that the genome is different has validity---then all the treatment you had didn't work because the Mexican Giardia from the backwoods in the hinterland does not have a susceptibility to flagyl.
If this be true. LOL Then it could turn treatment for Giardia up side down because Giardia susceptibility would be closely tied to where it was contracted.
If this be true for Giardia, then it could be true for other bugs. It may be an already proven theory. It still is fun because it's a new thought for me and would then become a learning experience.
Hope you followed what the above is trying to say. It'll be fun to hear what the doc has to say. You may have to print this post out. If it were me I would, trying to repeat what I wrote would be pretty difficult.
Judi when you ask him the question watch his eyes. If you see a flash( momentary brightening) it means his mind has searched the ' brain data' base and he's found that it's a good question.
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MT where's my buddy? Did I say something that sounded not right to you? Hope not, if I did, I apologize.
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Judi, Btw you waiting for a period after developing a change in stools....not unusual. Not unusual for any sign or symptom that doesn't knock us down. If you had been ill with other s/s's like fever , chills, N&V......or combo of s/s's you would have sought care sooner. At the time your stools weren't right, a natural human response is to think things will straighten out in a few days.
Use a completely different condition. Think about the last 30-40 years about all the public education in print, tv spots etc. regarding s/s's of stroke or heart attack. All the s/s's don't have to be present for something to be happening. The teaching has been directed at what to pay attention too.
You did good, you sought care when things didn't straighten out. If your thought was this long term problem with Giardia was due to delayed treatment. Nope......Nope.......Nope. Right treatment was never rendered.
Take a look at page one or two where I wrote about Diverticulosis and diverticulitis. Then let's talk about that. I'm not suggesting I know more than your doc. But I do have both sides of the bed experience on the issue.
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SAS - absolutely not. And I followed your long post about the mutation of giardia by country w/o printing it out. HA!
As a summary - All my life I was on the hard side & stools only every 3-4 days. I had never ending diarrhea during chemo (s) and lost 60 lbs. So I was surprised to be back with constipation once I finished Herceptin as I was slowly working my back to my new normal with my standard calcium & vitamin supplements. Five months down the road, I was having to take Colace 2-3 days a week, in addition to 2-3 prunes daily. As an experiment, I stopped taking Vit E gel caps. No reason to believe these were related - BUT - a week down the road the constipation ended and I no longer take either Colace or prunes. Stools are med to med soft and every day. Weird. So 6/1 I will start the Vit E again. It really seems to make a difference in the fluidity of my knees, and also stops the symptoms of my trigger thumb. I'll let you know if I revert back to Constipation again. It will have to be a first for Vit E use.
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Hi ladies! Sorry was at the doctor's offices today. All good re polyps; benign. Now the Giardia. I don't know if it has been mapped but interesting theory. I'm finished this med and all is good. Stool is not bright yellow/greasy like it should be with initial exposure to Giardia and then being symptomatic. Not all people experience all symptoms associated with a disease. For me right now, I look at say "Giardia" your dead. What I found interesting was not to do a stool sample until 3 weeks time. Normal resampling is after 3 days but you know, it makes sense to me. You may still be shedding. I met with my former supervisor today and we were talking about it.
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Sorry ladies I have to type in two segments as I ramble on, the typing becomes slower and slower. So, my former supervisor did not know there was Flagyl resistant Giardia and he also thought that all the treatment killed the parasite. Interestingly, another health inspector did not know there was a "carrier" state of Giardia. But my former supervisor said that the infectious disease dr. knows his stuff (he was the head medical director of a licensed lab) so we'll see what happens.
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Oh good there's my Buddy -MT--We've both hung in here for so long. Couldn't think about being here without you showing up girlfriend. Weird about Vitamin E---------butbutt we know anything can happen.
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Morning ladies! Today I start watching what I eat again as I lost 20 lbs. and would like to keep it off. But you didn't know this, I added Metamucil to my yogurt and cereal. Not only does it help lower cholesterol levels to promote heart health, promote digestive health it also boots daily fibre intake (all taken from an ad - I'm not that savvy). But I did read in an ad to add to your meals and I don't know what magazine I looked at to find this. When I do I'll share. But I was at my family doctor's and we talked about colonoscopy results and the drug "Constella". Dr. said to do the metamucil as this drug is really new and I don't want to become dependent on drugs. Hard enough cancer med is causing increased cholesterol and constipation. Add metamucil to your meals and so I'm going to do this and see if my bowel movements are daily and pass easily!
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Judy ROTFLOL......"instead of using flour to thicken the gravy, we use Metamucil------going for a that two for one response"...."Surprise everyone at that next family gathering"
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SAS - Baaaaaaaaad.
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MT not funny?0
