I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
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Greenfrog, I have always been a Hepburn fan too. If you are talking nail polish and frills, then I am with you. I am not very tall, but I am 5'8", so not exactly short either. I have a masculine face and although I am slender, sort of square shoulders. So, no, I have never done stereotypical girly very well either and I ain't starting now.
However, for me, being female and feminine does not depend on being girly. Besides, I am freaking 50 years old (almost anyway). I do find, however, that with the short hair, I can play with the overtly feminine a little better. I have started wearing jewelry, for example. Before I never did, because it tended to look like "too much" to me. I wear scarves now as well, something I also never did before. I now own more than one purse and clothes with colors on them. That kind of thing.
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By the way, just came across this jacket, and it looks like it would work well:
Obviously you would want a copy, unless you are independently wealthy or something. Love that the site has a "quick shop" option. Sure, dude, I will "quick shop" an 1800-dollar jacket.
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Mastectomy was not presented as an option for me either. The words were something to the effect of, why mutiliate yourself? Um, mother took DES while carrying me and later had cancer in both breasts, grandmother had cancer in one breast and died from metatasis to brain and bones. Then I get the line of, oh, we’ll be watching you closely and if something else turns up we’ll get it then. But I want to be done with this -- as much as possible -- NOW. Plus, despite mammos every year, and some biopsies, too, my cancer was not picked up until I found a lump by self-exam. That showed up on sonogram. So, I don’t have much trust in “finding it early.”
How about a Mastectomy March for awareness? I’d be in for that, wearing a tight-fitting tank and a matching lymphedma sleeve, too. Assuming it would be held where the weather is warm. And I’d like some lead time so I can work on my abs (gained a few pity-pounds lately). Also, could we ban pink? I’m really not liking the whole pink thing.
Ellen
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Ellen, that is really crappy. But the first bunch of docs I saw had a similar attitude. They were bent on preserving as much of my boobs as possible with such determination that you would have thought it was about their testicles and not my boobs. The second surgeon I saw got himself hired by being more open-minded about this aspect.
Mel, that is exciting about the photographer. Tell her you can get her a gig in Greece, if she is interested
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Fascinated by this thread. Particularly to learn that some others haven't thrown away their old bras. I have got rid of a few of them but just can't chuck out the others... Why? Not sure. Odd but i guess not a major problem. I am a year in after a single mastectomy. Have'nt been able to move on quite yet.
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I'm having my mastectomy in two days. I decided yesterday that I needed to clean out my bra drawer before rather than after. And I couldn't do it. I got rid of a few old ones, but I kept a lot of them, and I have no idea why, I understand, 1boob.
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1boob and CSMommy, Don't be too hasty throwing out those bras. My mother regrets getting rid of hers. Some work fine for foobs. My Hanes sports bras are double layered fabric, so I was able to cut a slit on the side near the armpit and put foobs in there. Though I have the silicone and foam foobs, I most often use the fiber-filled ones I got from the American Cancer Society. Lightweight, not too hot, and they don't shift around like the foam ones do. My favorite combo currently is the Still You camisole with the fiber-filled foobs.
By the way, aren't some of the mastectomy product brand names offensive? "Still You," "Nearly Me." I mean, come on!
Ellen
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Greenfrog. I think I lean towards what you're feeling/saying. I don't want to be noticed for having no breasts. I don't Want to be noticed at all. I want to feel comfortable in attractive clothing and begin NOT thinking about BC all the time.
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I've never tried a foob on. Too soon? No need? I don't know.
People see me in my swim suit all the time now. People who've KNOWN me for YEARS. Saw another one today who asked me what I've been up to this summer. Never even GUESSED as I stood there in my swim suit. And I did have two medium-big breasts until 6 weeks ago! It's just not obvious unless they already know via grapevine.
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I am only 5 foot 2 and I used to get stares in highschool as to whether or not I was a girl or boy. I guess now, some might actually think lesbian these days rather than male, lol. But that's ok. I am 50 and married and not looking for a partner. I think the things that become a problem for each of us depends greatly on our circumstances and our own self perception. Things we were already a little sensitive about before bc, we may be more bothered about following the mastectomies. But really, I think we obsess about things that nobody around us is even noticing. Truth is, most of the world is so self centered, they don't notice much about other people. So that is why the goal is simply building your own self image and making yourself happy.
CS Mommy - I will be praying for you. I get the sense that you are scared, and that is natural. I wouldn't even look at my stitched up chest for the first couple of days. It is also normal to feel a sense of loss - like mourning - following the mastectomy. Not everybody does, but its normal if you do. I am voluntarily having my second mastectomy on November 28th, and even though I have planned this, I think I will still experience those feelings again. And as EllenP said, don't be too hasty in throwing out bras or clothing. I packed up all kinds of things I thought I would never wear again, and spent a lot of money needlessly right before and after my first mastectomy. I have found that some of my old tops work better than some of the stuff I thought I had to have to hide the missing breast. I also have a very expensive prothesis that I have worn once. I have changed how I wear some of my old things. And I have bought some new tops I feel wonderful in. But I should have given myself more time to get used to how I feel in my new skin before I went on a spending spree. Especially now that I am going to have the second breast off. I imagined that it imust be harder for big breasted women because there is such a drastic change, but even though I am/was a small busted woman I still felt a sense of loss and am still working towards my new self image.
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I know I'm coming at this from my own experience. While find a lot of commonality on this board - wondering how to dress so my (lack of) chest isn't a distraction at times when I do care if someone's distracted by it - being mistaken a guy hasn't worried me. I was never any more "feminine" in style or unmistakeably female than I am now (except maybe when pregnant). Back when my sister and I were in high school, my grandmother bemoaned our gait - "You two walk like boys!" And it was true, or I guess more true that we walked like girl-jocks, which we were. Once, when I was in my 20's with long blond hair, a guy came up to me in a Greyhound station where I'd been standing in line and asked (with all politeness) "Me and my sister been wondering, is you a girl or is you a dude?" I didn't mind being asked. If I had worried about being mistaken for something I wasn't, I wouldn't have been wearing a non-descript shirt and Levi's.
Still, even for me, a kind of butch mom of two if there ever was one, this has been a process. How could it not be? There's a "you" that's present to the world for what seems like forever, then very quickly it's very different. I think I almost felt a little naked for a while without my breasts on the front of me.
Most of the time, I don't want to be a poster child. I don't want to be a trailblazer. I just want to live my life, do what I'm good at, have fun with my family and friends. But at the same time, I want others to accept that I am who I am, and if that "me" is someone with a major physical difference than anyone else most people know, then I guess I am that trailblazer. I'm not going to worry about hiding for other people, even kids. Kids see disabilities or differences that can't be hidden: wheelchairs, white canes, burn scars. They find a way to incorporate it into how they understand the world, hopefully with the help of their parents. With all the preschoolers I've seen in the last couple years since my BMX, I don't remember any of them ever even asking about my chest (what I do remember is arguing with one boy about whether I was my son's mother or grandmother - "No you're not, you're the grandma was a tad irritating). But if they do, I'll just answer simply.
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CSMommy, good luck. And I agree with EllenP - don't be too hasty to throw things out. Shock, grief and fear evolve over time, and if you've tossed something now you may want it back later when you're at a different stage. I didn't look at my bras for ages, I just couldn't. When I was ready, I gave most of them to my partner. I was pretty sad, but at that point, it was OK to be sad and to do it. I kept a couple worn-out nursing bras that I'm going to bury, maybe next time we plant a tree, although the further away I get from my surgery the less important having some kind of a good-bye ceremony seems. I said good-bye to the real things, sobbing in the pre-op area, talked to them, told them what I had appreciated. I still do feel hurt and loss when I think about the soft weight of them, or sex, or how much my nipples itched when I was pregnant and what an exciting time that was. But that's life. I get misty eyed thinking about hiking with my daughter when she was little enough that I could wear her on my chest for miles and miles. That little baby is gone too, old enough for me to leave alone at a birthday party now. What I feel over time is my sense of loss evolving into one of those old, worn hurts that lets me know I loved something, even if it's gone now.
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Ellen, you are so right about those product names.
Outfield, nice post. I have also been thinking about the fact that it IS an amputation. It is an odd one, since it does not really affect daily functionality. We can still walk, talk, cook, drive etc without any adjustments usually. But we still lost body parts. I do think it is to be expected that we need some processing time on that.
The little boy made me laugh. I had a couple last week in the vet's waiting room. They were a bit off, not sure if they were cognitively delayed or recovered junkies or what. In any event, the man kept insisting that my dh had to be my grandpa, then when I insisted he was not my grandpa, the guy insisted dh had to be my dad. I am married to an old geezer, but still!
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Another thought. I was reading the gossip columns this morning and saw that Russell Crowe and his wife split up. Check out the article, please. Towards the bottom it has two pictures of the couple. In the first one, the older one, the wife is wearing a white, ruched dress and has almost no bust at all. In the next she is wearing a more revealing dress and has obviously had some silicone installed. http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/russell-crowe-splits-wife-report-article-1.1183185
People are obviously free to do as they please, but it occurred to me that the current fashion of large breasts and the availability of implant surgery (it has even become common in Denmark of all places) and push-up bras have conspired to make us flatties more conspicuous. If everyone was in her natural state, we, and everyone else, would be far more used to seeing a range of sizes and there would be far more women walking around with small and very small busts.
Being flat is still a whole other story, but if I wore that white dress Crowe's wife has on, I would not look noticeably different than her (well, except for her gorgeous face).
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I saw another flat woman last night and the interesting thing was that I think I'm the only one that noticed. We were waiting in line and as people came up to join the line they passed me and a few other people and then the other flat woman. I had on a T shirt with a scarf that didn't cover everything but was flouncy and distracting. She was wearing a striped sweater. Nobody flinched or blinked at either of us.
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Yes, there's still a tight band feeling across the front of my chest 2 months after the dbl mastectomy. I also have the sensation I remember of milk coming in when I breast fed. It was the strongest sensation during this last night (strong enough to awaken me), plus the sensation of really hard nipples. That's been one of the strangest things ... feeling in nipples that aren't there. In the first weeks after surgery it felt as though someone had grabbed and twisted them really hard.
I haven't yet reconciled myself to the lumpy, bumpy terrain of my chest. There're still swellings that will take months more to "maybe" dissipate. I feel fine in clothing and have found that only the people who know my story are the ones looking closely. Nobody else seems to notice my anatomy.
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I was born too late.
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Giving up my beautiful and expensive bras wasn't easy. Finally, after so many years of wearing misfitted bras (I'm 70) I had discovered Wacoal underwire bras that felt comfortable. All five of them had been purchased since the beginning of the year so they were still "new." I ended up "gifting" them to my best friend who is the same size I was ... 40D. I don't really miss my breasts, but I can get a bit wisful about those beautiful bras that made me look AND feel good. Crazy, isn't it?
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I am suddenly very aware of cleavage on the TV and in magazines and am finding myself starting to mourn the loss of them and I haven't even lost them yet. My emotions are a yo-yo right now. Excited at the possibility of being able to wear button down shirts while at the same time terrified of no longer being attactive.
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Frapp, attractive is 90-99% pure attitude, I think. I always sort of thought so before BC, now I am convinced.
Thanks to the discussion here, I decided to go flat tonight to go for my doctor's appointment. I figured that if there is one place where you can definitely show up flat, it is at the breast surgeon's office. To go there, however, I walk about 20 minutes through some of the more chi-chi shopping and cafe areas of town. On the other hand it was evening.
I wore jeans, a blue linen button-down shirt and an orange sweater draped around my neck.
One guy noticed, but that was only because he was checking out my ass and wanted to see what else I might have as he passed me. I am not sure he realized they were missing all together. He may just have been disappointed that they didn't match the ass. Two middle-aged guys I passed gave me the old up-n-down, when one of them realized that I noticed, he told me "congratulations!" with grave appreciation. I am sure he had no idea I had parts missing. One woman in the waiting room noticed and gave me a nice smile.
It was quite interesting actually.
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Go Mo!! Interesting is fun, sometimes...
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I just posted about MT1's "Pocket Project" on my blog. Kudos to her for getting publicity, and hopeful easy acceptance, for those of us who have chosen not to have constructed breasts. This is all new to me as of this past mid August. I'm grateful for all the support and information I can get/find to heal and feel comfortable living breast free. I'm so glad to have found this site with links to abundant information and support.
- Granellie (that's what my grandchildren call me)
Think I figured out to post a live link in the above paragraph ... just in case I hadn't, here's the link:http://nelliedurand.blogspot.com/2012/10/breast-pockets.html
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For some reason, I have a 'thing' at morning time. I get depressed, sad, mournful for the loss of my breasts upon waking in the morning. Not everyday, but when I do, boy does it color my day. Today I woke to these feelings. Mourning for the loss of breasts is OK, it is part of the process, I suppose. I look forward to the day these thoughts and feelings are secondary.
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MT completely normal.
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Nellie, I love the pockets you made. They are beautiful. The top you trimmed them from looks really good too.
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Are you sure he wasn't looking at you just because you are gorgeous and he hadn't even noticed or had any interest in your cup size I'm a flaty and I can't say that I've ever noticed anybody noticing my flat chest, I always think men lok at me cos I'm beautiful LOL (which I'm not but it makes me feel better)
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Wiggy, I think that is the correct attitude to take, lol.
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Is there something in the water today? People I've been encountering have been grumpy, especially drivers. It is such a beautiful day, and I have been out running a lot of errands. I was trying to pull out onto a street with several lanes of traffic and cars coming in both directions. Some guy was turning to pull into the FedEx parking lot where I am exiting, and I am waiting since there are cars either way. He goes past me and I see he is saying "dumb ass" - referring to me because he is looking right at me. That's it, I had had it. Well, the FedEx lot is pretty small, and I backed up and parked. I got out of my car and went over to his, and he jumps when he looks up and sees me. He rolls his window down, and so I said that I saw him call me dumb ass. He looks a little embarrassed and said he thought I was going to go. I said he must not have seen cars coming both ways. He said "my bad" and I said okay, I just didn't think you had to be such a mean person. So I got in my car and left. I didn't feel any better than when I had seen him call me dumb ass, so I wondered why I even bothered. Normally, I let those things roll right off my back as I figure people can be having a hard day. Who knows, maybe their life is hell, they are out of work or have an illness. The appearance of Mr. Fancy car and suit shouldn't have influenced my perception, but I got the feeling anyone who says something directly to anyone like that probably is a jerk. I am so tired of people being rude to everyone. I ended up driving into town for another errand, and another guy was honking his horn behind me to go at the stupid light when it was already red. Do I need to retake my driving test?? Maybe the rules have changed since I got my license. LOL! Anyway, I have enough of my own stuff going on and I still find a way to be kind to others when I think they do stupid things. What this rant has to do with being flat chested is beyond me, but maybe I just needed to stand up for myself. You can call me "no titties", "transvestite", "you look like a man", but I draw the line at "dumb ass"!
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Tina: Thank you. I needed that. The last line just sent me into a laughing, snorting seizure here at work. i just love that you said something to him! Bravo!
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MT1, oh those moments ... mine usually sneek up on me unexpectedly. I'll be "just fine" and all of a sudden be overcome with a BIG sob caught in my throat and tears in my eyes. Usually it passes rather quickly and I'm back at "whatever."
Momine, thank you. I needed to make those pockets ... to help me feel a part of a sisterhood with my friends, mother, sister, and multitude of others out there. The tunic top that the fabric for those pockets was trimmed from used to be a maxi-sundress/jumper. I felt good wearing it.
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MT, I get those moments too...my daughter gave me some fashion magazines and by the third one last night, I was soooo saaad. Poor me, no boobs...and nothing like 1000 models to ram that fact home.
And it is ok to be sad now and then, after all, this was not our choice, we are just trying to make the best of it all.
Granelli, welcome to our group here!
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