Treating estrogen responsive cancer naturally
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across a thread yesterday mentioning DIM increases your progesterone
THX
Not too thrilled with the thought of that. my numbers are at 98%
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I've read tons on DIM and have never seen anything about raising progesterone, although I have read quite a bit on both schools of thought as to whether increasing progesterone can be a good thing. I am only 15% positive, but 90-100% estrogen positive. My onc doc told me being progesterone positive is a good thing.
I have a very tender tummy, a cranky pancreas and a somewhat low thyroid and have not experienced any problems with DIM. In fact, after a recent bout of pancreatitis, the DIM was the only supplement I was able to take even when I couldn't eat many foods. I've found the best price for the Natures Way at Swanson. The one most recommeded is out of CA, Oakland I think, but it was very expensive. I've never seen them in tablet form.
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Hi all! I found he thread I was reading yesterday about DIM and progesterone. The topic is DIM and PR+ breast cancer? In forum Complimentary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment.
This is the OP: "I am a long-time survivor who'd like to stay that way. I had been taking DIM but stopped because I read things about the owner of the particular company that gave me great pause. When I started to look around for DIM put out by other companies I noticed in the research something that escaped me earlier - DIM increases PR levels. Well my BC was ER+/PR+/HER+. I'm now wondering if I should be using it at all due to the fact that I am PR+?"
She didn't post any citations regarding her research though. And, I haven't done any research yet to verify her comments. I apologize if I've caused any alarm. It was "new" news to me and now I don't know what to believe. I guess when I feel up to more research I'll look into it. Right now, I have a 7 year old boy who is demanding my attention! LOL!
BTW, I took my first Nature's Way DIM today, along with my other supplements, and feel fine. No SEs. 😀0 -
She didn't post any citations regarding her research though...
Well, it's something to look into then.PLS dont apologize Amy. I dont think you caused alarm at all. Each one of us is responsibl;e for doing our own research. The great thing about this forum is that we can get opinions, ideas and ' cautions', but in the end, we make our own decisions. Thanks for giving me another avenue to explore.
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We are here to discuss it all. You do us a favor by bringing it up. Maybe its nothing - but Ill be calling my Naturopath who is a bigger reseacher than I am. Ill report back if I hear from her tomorrow.
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I think the progesterone acts in a different way than estrogen. Estrogen signaling cells to grow or reproduce and progesterone signaling them to stop. That is the way it was deacribed to me by the guy I used to get bioidenticals from. He said the breast cells have both receptors and that is the way they work during monthly cycles which is why we get sensitive breasts at certain times in the month. (Talking normal breasts, not cancer). So in theory its a good thing to be PR+ with the cancer because then the progesterone will do what its supposed to do. I think its just a theory, I don't know but it would be interesting to see it in a study, if progesterone would stop cancer cells that have pr receptors. I remember years ago mentioning the bio identicals to the breast surgeon and she said she would stay away from progestins, which is completely different from progesterone so I didn't even talk about any further.
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Ill report back if I hear from her tomorrow.
Thank you, shayne.
What is alarming is to see so many women popping a pill they aren't at all sure about ( might as well be taking tamoxifen or arimidex !) we need to have the solid research - and not just by the companies who sell the product.
I have gone to the clinical trial sites, which I trust the most, and see DIM being looked at for efficacy with some promise, but this ' progestin / progesterone' thing IS confusing and until it's cleared up, I am not any more comfortable taking the DIM than I would be the tammi.
First, do no harm!
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Thank you, Purple! Really didn't mean to cause concern but I guess it's better to have it "out" there. Thank you, Shayne! Looking forward to hearing back! I wish there was a BC encyclopedia. Just one book you could go to for ALL the answers! Sigh....
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DIM in another form is prescribed in Europe. There are probably more studies done in Germany (and other European countries). Germany is very advanced in alternative medicines. It would be a good place to start looking. I'm taking mine until I get this juicing thing down. Then I'll consider stopping. I'll be consuming a lot more green veggies then. :-)
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Mini, do you have any more info about the DIM prescribed in Europe, like a product name or something? I live in Europe and would be interested in tracking this down.
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Monine - I'll have to go back and check. It's been a while since I researched it. I will say that I wouldn't compare taking DIM with taking Tamox. DIM may not have the large studies behind it to prove its effecacy (although there is positive research results out there), but it also does not cause other cancers, blood clots, and the other serios SE's that Tamox can. It may not be a cure all but if you buy a quality brand, at worst you're taking something that has no effect on the cancer, and at best you'll be helping your body fight cancer, IMHO.
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at worst you're taking something that has no effect on the cancer, and at best you'll be helping your body fight cancer
Not necessarily.It can cause thyroid issues - which can potentially lead to thyroid cancer. DIM is goiterous.
And this whole <sub>topic began when someone brought up the potential to INCR your progresterone. I still think we need to be cautious as to what we pop into our mouths.
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That someone was me! :-) Oops!
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But again, amy, I think we all agree - that is a GOOD thing ! I personally thank you for it.Nobody wants to bury their head in the sand.
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😊 I've done a little looking but haven't found anything yet. I wish the OP on the other thread had posted citations. Maybe I should re-read the entire thread.
I also didn't realize it can cause thyroid issues. 😟0 -
It has a much less threat of causing thyroid issues if one is on the brownstein iodine protocol..
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on the brownstein iodine protocol..
Not according to my excellent endocrinologist. IN FACT, she warned me against taking iodine. I really think it is critical that people start LOOKING at who/where they are getting this info from. Is it PubMed ? Is it someone with a PhD ?
Please be careful, ladies.0 -
When I worked for a wellness doctor, I did all the research (pulling peer reviewed articles from pubmed and various peer reviewed databases) and everything I saw on iodine indicated it was very protective of breast cancer. I am curious why your endocrinologist indicates otherwise (articles? papers?).
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This study just came out:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/blogs/vital-signs/os-exercise-breast-cancer,0,4739829.post
"Changes in how estrogen breaks down, or metabolizes, in women who exercise may explain why aerobic activity lowers a woman’s breast cancer risk, according to a study out of the University of Minnesota.
Scientists have long known that exercise lowers breast cancer risk, but the new study, published in Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention, a journal of the American Association for Cancer Research, sheds light on possibly why.
Women who did aerobic exercises had an increased ratio of “good” to “bad” estrogen byproducts, researchers found."
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Thanks, Momine!
WallyI did look at studies etc ... many many mos ago. Sorry, nothing handy right now, but as I am sure you know- if you have thyroid issues they are complex. Hyper or hypo, goiters etc etc ... It takes a darn doctor ( thats why they have endos :>) to truly understand and deal with all the complexities.
Even the iodine uptake test can be iffy for some, according to my dr.
All I know for certain is this - I am hyper / not hypo and my dr. told me to stay away for the iodine.
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Thanks, Momine! As a regular exerciser, I like reading this kind of stuff to keep me motivated.
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Heidi, me too. I really do think that exercise is one of the most important "alternative" treatments out there.
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Purple my only understanding about thyroid issues is that they're very often under diagnosed. I have heard so many times from women who feel their thyroid is "not right" only to have all the tests come back "normal." So to your point, yes, I imagine it's very complex!
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I am hypo.......
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Careful ladies, when trying to access last link posted, I was warned of malware
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Yes, never just settle for a TSH test. Does NOT provide enough info at all. Ask your DR for a " Full thryoid panel"
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I had just finished a marathon when I had my first diagnosis. I was very healthy, slim, and ran 45-50 miles a week. Yet, I still got cancer.
My mother thought it was because I was exercising too much and therefore depressing my immune system; thereby allowing the embryonic cancer cell to activate.
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Well, I just scheduled my initial consult with Dr. George Wong, famous herbalist in NYC. He supposedly has an herbal alternative to Tamoxifen and I am excited to finally meet him...I will keep everyone posted as to what herbs he gives me and how they work for my hormones since I am declining tamox...
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I've been using pink salt. You get the good flavor and lots of trace minerals without the iodine.
Of course, Purple, people have to use their own judgment as to what they take depending on their conditions. I was talking in general terms. Not everyone has the same health issues and like most things in life what is bad for one may fine for another. There are things that are recommended in a cancer protocol that I can't take because of my pancreas or my bones. Personally, I think that eating right is our biggest ally. The more I research what we are putting in our bodies, the more I am convinced of it. I've started juicing vegetables and am working on totally changing my diet. It may cost more to eat this way, but it will be offset by the savings in supplements. The peace of mind that things are natural and healthful whether you have cancer or not is an added bonus.
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Of course, Purple, people have to use their own judgment
That's my concern, actually !
It seems some people are not informing themselves and just going by websites, advertisements, other peoples experiences or even just their own judgment. I am just saying it would be prudent to get some good links to scientific research before consuming anything ...except ' real food ' ! :>)0
