How to forgive family/friends who disappeared during cancer....
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I can promise that I am not "needy" and I'm not "self absorbed". I have compassion for others so call me crazy if I expect everyone to have some amount of compassion.
So ya, you've got my dander up. Life must be just a box of roses for you. I think we all have the right to expect common decency from friends and family. A son who abandons their mother? Brothers who abandon their sister? All because it's too tough for them? Please.0 -
Love you already Mardibra!
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My twin sister evaporated. Won't even call. My older brother is still going strong. The answer is their ability to cope.
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Love you too Mardibra!
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Mardibra - thanks for your post - I too am not needy nor self absorbed!! I have not expected nor accepted one iota of help from anyone!! My middle name is compassion - I am known for putting myself out there for others including strangers!
I felt "prickles rising on my back" with the inference I need to think MORE of others during MY crisis - once again a blame the victim mentality.
I love the support everyone offers on this site however at risk of creating a stir I cannot but help but have slight irritation at "armchair therapists" that post occasionally.
Please do not underestimate the hurt that many feel (and possible guilt that one may mistakenly believe they have done something to deserve to be treated this way) when family and/or friends ignore, minimise, leave etc by suggesting merely a change of perspective as a solution.
"Horrible' things are ONLY horrible if we choose to think of them that way" - really? Ill give you my you my daughters phone number and you can call her and tell her this if I die.
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It's funny, I've just come from my counselor and discussed this with him. How the only way we can know other people is through our own feelings and expectations. So when we think of what we would do or why we would do this and such, we only have our own values and experiences to go on. He said "and that doesn't work!" Which is very true!
But I don't know the alternative.
Sometimes it's the most compassionate and least demanding of us that gets the shaft. We don't scare anyone.
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High five ladies! Shitty behavior is just that...shitty.
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Shikari - I agree. Cancer is the one time in my life where I felt perfectly fine putting myself first. Many times I didn't, but it felt good knowing I was giving myself a choice.
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If I had known what an extreme response putting myself first would create I would have done it A LONG TIME AGO!!!
Their actions prove I should have done it a LOT sooner.
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Wow..this place is gettin heated...
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I'm only saying that to expect anything from others is a weak position -- and that my cancer -- for me -- has been an opportunity to ask for what I want, and release anger over what I can't have. Whatever the reason is for someone else's behavior -- the only way you will understand what is up with them is if you have that conversation with them. Then the two of you together can figure out a way to work it out... or not.
And if it is 'not' -- then the practical power position is to move on with your life and move out of blame and disappointment... rather than fostering it.
We all are needy sometimes. It is part of the human condition. And much thanks to the compassionate angels who rise to that occasion and help us.
But whether fear of cancer or too-busy-a-life or other obligations or some 'tragic' memory as a child ... who knows why these loved ones choose to 'not be there' for us sometimes. The power position is to let it 'be OK' that they aren't reliable. The power position is to ask for exactly what you want, and gracefully accept a "No" when you hear one. When asking a favor -- if you aren't able to accept a no -- then that must be really hard for the people in your life.
I am not blaming the vicitm -- I am choosing to not be a victim. Vicitm mentality starts with expecting all sorts of things from other people. We are not vicitms for having cancer. We are not victims because someone disappoints us. We are only victims when we decide to stay in hurt and despair and anger.
Why do some vets come back from the war missing a leg -- and fall into despair and possibly even alcohol and drug abuse because of the 'unfairness' -- when other vets with the same exact situation get a prosthesis and decide to run a marathon, becoming an inspiration to all who see them?
It is IN YOUR OWN MIND.
It is your choice to be joyful or angry. It is your own choice whether these failing relationships are worth having honest direct conversation to repair -- or not.
But posting here (or conversations anywhere) about how righteous it is to be angry at others for 'failing us' only leaves us stuck in our complaints -- feeling self-righteous and sad/angry (and probably pretty hard to be around). There are other choices. Compassion for those who you think have "let you down" is a choice, too. Asking directly for what you want -- or having a conversation about your feelings about what your loved ones have done -- WITH THEM - is another potential choice that might actually have a surprising and good outcome. Surrounding yourself with new friends who 'get it' and are loyal -- is another.
But I can promise you that the longer you stay in complaint -- the worse it feels. It becomes a habit -- and it acts like a poision.
My beloved father died in the fall of 2011. I was his primary caretaker, and lived his last month with him in hospice. I learned that some people would help -- and some just disappeared. Some told me later about their own fears of cancer/death/hospitals -- whatever -- or that their own health (etc) was bad, and they didn't want to burden me with it at the time. My own sister was not the help that I thought she 'should' be. What I know now, that I didn't know then, was that her husband (20 years sober) had fallen off the wagon when his own mother died about the same time my father became ill. She was torn. Didn't want to share his condition with me. I spent time being 'disapointed' in her not 'being there' as much as I thought she 'should'. Wasted energy. Wasted time. Spent hours in anger and disappointment, that served no purpose at all.
I am only telling you what I have learned through my own hard personal work of the last 3-5 years.
I know it sounds blunt, or uncaring... but the truth is that our human relationships are probably the most important things in our lives -- and the most confounding. The power position -- the one that leaves you in control of your own life and your emotions -- is to 'be OK' with people behaving exactly ANY way they do. I believe that we each of us make the very best decisions that we can in every single moment. We might have a head ache or heart ache or a million other things tugging at us, making us sometimes behave in ways that we wish we hadn't.
But in that exact moment -- when we were late, or sick, or upset -- we still made the best decision we could -- right then, given those exact circumstances.
And with that way of thinking -- I can forgive myself. I can forgive us all.
Linda
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sorry i cannot swallow all of that.
I fall over backwards for my family and friends....no matter what....in any condition...im there and when my time comes/came u betta be there or you are gone...AMEN
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I am not at all needy. I am the one everyone comes to when they need something because I will do whatever I can to help people I care about. I hardly ever ask anyone for anything, it's just easier to do it myself in the first place.
Most of us are not bitching about people not doing things for us. I don't need anyone to do anything for me. We are hurt that they just bail out of our lives completely when we need them most.
I don't think expecting my family and friends of 20 years to act like they give a shit about me is asking to much. I also think I have every right to feel hurt, angry and whatever else without being called self righteous. I can pretend I'm not and act like I'm fine with it all, but I'm not and acting like I am wouldn't change a damn thing.
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"to expect anything from others is a weak position" - really? Is this an absolute? In all circumstances? Even when an agreement/deal has been made? Kind of a blanket statement really. Look at this in a hunter/gatherer context and you may see what I mean. It has also been my experience that those who expect more tend to RECEIVE more - quite different from the way I was raised - keep quiet, dont ask for anything, wait your turn - to always be the last on the receiving end.
Secondly, posting on a forum doesnt mean I (or anyone else) am fostering blame and disappointment. We come here to share experiences. I post what has been happening to me as a relational exercise and read others posts similarly - it makes me feel not so alone in my experiences. We are after all social animals.
Thirdly, we are also emotional creatures. Peoples actions do sometimes hurt us - especially in time of need. I would rather be hurt than numb. Many people suffer from mental illness due to numbing of emotions. I accept my family do not care for me the way I would like them to but it still hurts. AND THAT IS OK.
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You can be any way you want to be. You can be hurt. You can be angry.
That sure seems like a waste of time and energy though -- doesn't it? The person affected by your choice to feel disappointed -- is YOU. It hurts YOU.
The original post here was "I would love advice on how to forgive and move on in family/friend relationships" -- not -- "let's all commisserate about our disappointments in our family and friends".
Granny -- (and Fran) you seem extremely clear about how you feel. That is wonderful! You get to move on with your life... minus those who didn't measure up to your standards. And that is a great choice for you. Most people posting here though, don't seem to be ready to move on to that next step (of severing unsatisfying relationships).
Me, personally, I am not a big believer in burning bridges. So I can let people come and go -- ebb and flow. Sometimes I am really REALLY close to people -- we have great conversations and love to hang out together. Then -- sometimes --- something else comes up in life and we go our separate ways -- for a minute -- or forever. Sometimes I never know what happened, and I suppose, sometimes I don't even notice that that person dropped away -- maybe because without even being aware -- I am the one who dropped them.
A son, a daughter, a sister -- I would want to have the conversation. But I would be prepared to hear that THEY weren't ready to have it. And that would have to be OK -- so I could let it go and move forward in my own life -- until they flow back in again, when THEY are ready. And then I can decide if I am ready, too.
So -- if the question really IS: "I would love advice on how to forgive and move on in family/friend relationships" -- then at least one way to do that is to give up your expectations -- give up victim-thinking -- accept who-they-are-being as just the-way-they-are-being-right-now and that you can't control how they are being -- and they might surprise you and do something wonderful real soon- especially if you ASK THEM.
Or another idea might to be brave enough to have a truly frank conversation with them about what your expectations are (they may be amazed!) or just accept that you can't count on them to 'be there' for you right now.
But the whole concept of 'forgiving' someone implies that they have done something 'wrong'. Right and wrong are totally your opinion -- your judgment... and you probably don't have anywhere near "all the facts". Judging other people is fruitless -- unless you just want more to complain about.
So -- It's fine with me if now some of you want to complain about my response. You are the masters of your own worlds. Maybe it is entertaining to complain. Maybe it brings a sense of commaraderie. Maybe it feels good to be "right". But whatever it is -- is what you are CHOOSING to feel -- and probably is reflected in lots of your relationships.
Sometimes people can be wonderful. Sometimes people can suck. They are human -- and so are we. If you love someone enough to be 'disappointed' in them -- then I would suggest loving them enough to tell them how you feel and see if you can move forward in the relationship.
But the more you complain (in your head, in your conversations, posting here -- anywhere you complain) -- the more times you tell the story of your disappointment and hurt -- the more ingrained it becomes as yournew 'way of being'.
Your brain starts making more and more negative/hurt/disapointed connections in more and more situations.
We are incredibly powerful in the way we can control our own sphere of emotion. There is no amount of water that can drown you -- if you don't let it inside. Imagine floating to the top of the ocean (of disappointment) and riding the waves up top instead of drowning down below.
Good luck to you all
Linda
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wow. I think that is all very well said Linda.
I have to admit I do still feel a sore spot over my friend. it still hurts. maybe I should just call her? IDK. maybe we have just grown apart. Our girls are best friends, have been since preschool. they graduate next year.
Last year while I was on chemo, my sister who lives nearby, fell off face of earth. she was in deep depression. I had to go over and pull her out of it. I told her I needed her etc etc. I was starting to feel that anger when you need someone but they are silent due to there own issues.
I dread calling my friend. I am horrible with words.
sometimes I am not sure which form of communication to use-text, fb, phone, smoke signal . we live in such a complicated world.
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Im very clear on how i feel....you can call it anything you want.....unless you have a very good excuse why you were not there for me when i needed you the very most you can take a hike....
remember i said i will drop everything for my friends and family...any time day or nite.Call it anything anyone wants i call it you suk.
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Anger can be a great motivator........to remove or move on from the toxic people in your life, whether acquaintance or family.
Pruning the tree of dead branches will make it healthier, allowing the healthy ones to blossom anew.0 -
MsShelly, I think you gave what you could, sometimes others want more or expect more and shouldnt.
I guess reading all of your posts does help and does make me feel although strangers there is love here on these boards. I did the bigger thing tonight and called my friend/work collegue. She didnt take my call nor did she call me back. I got so worked up inside I ended up taking a xanax. Part of me says let it go, part of me is just angry. Maybe angry with myself I am not sure. We spoke everyday and is my partner at our job which also puts a strain on my work. I do work at home so I dont see her but I do miss her but I dont think I can forgive, even if she did pick up I know things will never be the same. Seeing a freindship end is painful no matter the circumstance. But in saying that I have a wonderful family and other amazing friends that have been true to our friendship. The article I posted really says it all, we cannot make anyone go thorugh this with us, those that can will.
At the end of the day when I lay my head on the pillow I know I was a good friend. I am fighting for my life I have to let this type of thing go, control what we can and be at peace with everything else. Gosh, that sounds good must be the xanax talking.
much love to you all..xo
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i think it is very VERY hard to understand cancer unless you have lived it personally. i really think that most people have NO clue about breast cancer or cancer in general. I read this story once about this boy who lost his mom to cancer. he discussed all his regrets, things he wished he would have done with her before it was too late. he explained that he thought her cancer would be curable, that she just needed treatment and she would be okay. he didn't know that it could and would come back in that same year. he thought they would have so much time together, he didnt need to take the photographs, have the parties with her because they had years together. his mom had spared him her fears and the real and scary truth about her advanced illness and he had believed her and all he had was regret after she died. his mom may have been feeling just as some of you are, like she was abandoned by her son. He was out living his life while she was suffering. But he explained she never discussed her illness with him. She said she was fine and he believed her. After reading his story, it is clear he really loved his mom. he just simply didn't understand. he lives every day in regret and he misses her constantly. i know it is hard to believe but some people just DON'T understand. it is hard for people to understand that cancer can recurr and that even being cured now may not mean we are truly cured. i was talking to a girlfriend on the phone across the country and i told her what i have been through the past few months because i hadn't talked to her for a while and she was wondering why. she asked me "well, are you okay now?" i think a lot of people just see it as being cured or not. if you make it through treatment you must be cured and life can go on.
anyhow, i really think unless you have communicated with the people you feel have not been there and expressed your feelings with them, it is unfair to write them off. how can they change unless they know what they have done wrong. how can they show you that they care unless you give them a chance. i know it may seem like there are things that are expected and if they don't do it, if they don't go to the effort to lend a hand, then screw them, but i really think they need to be given a chance to change or at least explain themselves. and to do that, our own feelings need to be expressed. if they are truly important to us, we can talk to them about our feelings. i do agree, sometimes it has to be the cancer patient to take the first step, break the ice and open up some communication.
i certainly believe family is worth fighting for and that even if our family were to let us down, they are our family and an effort should be made to forgive them. i like this quote: "the person that may make you weak is the very person that could make you the happiest on earth." sometimes it is the people that we are the angriest at that are really the people we care most about. it is just awful that illness and death sometimes lead to even more loss.
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lemon, sorry i just saw your post. i am truly sorry this has happened to you. we all know our personal circumstances and the only ones who can judge the situation is us personally. i get it. i really do. again, i am sorry. i know it is hard to lose a friend. but i do truly believe breast cancer should be a time to make new friends, most definitely.
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I think sometimes what we need is time. We've been through so much, physically and emotionally. I know with my son I went through a grieving process. Since I thought I would never see my grandchildren again, it was as though they had died. Is it ok to grieve? I went through months of it. It's a normal response to loss. I decided to live for myself and try to forget. What choice did I have?
The thing is, they got rid of the dog! So it's an odd place to be. Do I just open up my heart and go back to the way things were? That can't be! I know something now that I didn't know before. Of course the children are innocent.
I guess my emotions are mixed now. I had finally felt that I'd freed myself. that I had to start a new life without them. And then... When someone refuses to discuss a problem it leaves you (or at least me) in the lurch. I don't know where I stand. Every relationship has expectations. I don't mean that I expect them to come and do my laundry! But some kind of parameters to the relationship. Do we celebrate birthdays anymore? Do we get together? I feel neither here nor there. And part of me has decided to separate and go on with my life without them. I don't know how to go forward without talking. There really is no relationship if you can't talk. If there is no truth, what is there?
But ultimately, I'm giving it time. I still don't feel healed, even physically. A year ago the pain was so intense I could not conceive of ever seeing them again. Now, I've seen them twice. Uncomfortable but not painful Sometimes time heals. I don't see another way.
But you can't tell someone else what to feel. I think you have to accept feelings as they are and move on from there.
It's really kind of ironic because anyone who knows me knows that I have real difficulty accepting help from anyone.
And It's not help that I miss. It's just plain caring.
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"i certainly believe family is worth fighting for...".
Funny, that's what I thought too...however, some of us were not given that consideration in our time of need.
Venting is a healthy way to express emotion. It's not "complaining". Am I angry? Yes, I am. Does it run or control my life? Hell no!0 -
Granny -- I love the direct way you are. My bet is that the people in your life know exactly where you stand -- and what you want -- and the amazing amount you offer.
Fran -- Of course you could call your friend if you miss her! She probably would love for you to be back in her life, too. And you might be surprised what she was thinking/feeling back then. You were a different person then. She was a different person then. You both learned from the experience -- and now you could be even closer than before -- if that is what you would like to create, I bet it is possible for you.
Some of the personal work I have done in the last couple of years is to contact EVERYONE in my past with whom I was 'incomplete'. Not everyone was willing to take my call. That had to be "OK" for me. But the things I learned were AMAZING. I had no idea what was up with them at the time of our falling out -- most of the time they fell away because something in our relationship had caused them to suffer about something from their past (some unresolved childhood hurt that had nothing at all to do with me, but continued to affect the way 'they are' in relationships). Sometimes it was completely unrelated to our relationship, but they had problems of their own that simply made them withdraw from everyone -- me included. Some suffered chronic depression (and I didn't know).
And sometimes the falling out was actually some ridiculous misunderstanding. I said something they took some bizarre way -- or the reverse.
I even healed my relationship with my mother -- who had always irritated the hell out of me! Through doing this work -- I realized that I had been blaming my mother for pretty much every 'mistake' I had ever made in realtionships with men. But now I realize that she did the VERY BEST she could to be a good mother and 'tutor' me in how to be a good mate. She shared her view of the world -- and it was ME who decided to swallow it whole. Becoming an adult meant that I should have learned to reassess for myself -- not blame my mother for what she taught me. She did the best she could since she had the life that she had. She loved me more than anything else in the world (well, me and my sister and Dad) and she certainly never meant to mislead or to hurt me.
Thank God I reconciled with Mom when I did -- because during Dad's illness and death (and especially after he died, when I had to help Mom readjust to be being something other than 'wife' after 60 years of devoting herself to my Dad...) there is no way I could have been the sort of daughter I wanted to be (kind/loving/patient) when my heart had previously been so full of disdain for her. I am SO thankful that I was able to give up being beligerent and blaming her for every little thing that she did/said that didn't live up to my 'expectations' of how she 'should be'.
The amazing thing is that Mom hasn't changed at all. She is exactly the same person.
But I changed drastically. I gave up being angry at her.
And -- now I am free to love her and accept her love.
I did this over and over. I did it with my ex. I gave up complaining about all the 'terrible' things 'he did to me' 13 years ago during the divorce -- and began to admit that I had been pretty nasty to him, with all my disappointment in him and blame and shame. I began to admit that my 'being the victim' in the stories I told of him had somehow filled some need I had to 'be better than him'... and that with my expectations of who he was and how he would be -- there was no room in that for him to be any way other than 'rotten'.
I worked through the entire string of boyfriends of the last 10 years since my divorce.
I did the same with all the old girlfriends who disappointed me (or slept with my ex!) --
Sometimes I actually had conversations with the people -- but I found I could also release old 'hurts' about people who were dead -- or completely out of my life.
By realizing that I was the one who controled my emotions -- that I had CHOSEN to be angry/hurt/disappointed... that I had had other options, but just couldn't see them at the time, because no one had ever shared this sort of an idea with me... I was able to do more than "forgive" everyone (including ME) for all the 'bad' things in the past -- I was able to just let the past be the past, and realize that in every single moment I could choose to be "OK" instead of angry -- and that in every single moment all those people could choose to want to be in my life -- or not.
It didn't 'mean anything'.
No one 'owed' me anything. Every act of kindness was a gift. A single solitary gift unrealted to any expectation of more to come.
That my 'expectations' of people had poisioned my ability to let them just be who they were in that moment.... to just let them be themselves.
And yes -- to have no 'expectations' is ALWAYS the power position. Because you are the only person in your life over which you have control.
I had a coach whose marriage vows were: I promise to never know you. I promise to never need you. And I promise to give 100% to this relationship, expecting nothing in return.
What these vows mean are that he promised to let her be herself totally -- in every new situation, without assuming he "knew" what she would do or say or what she might like. He did not put her in some 'box' of 'his knowing of her'. He promised to take care of his own needs -- not need her -- so that she would always be free to make herself happy, not feel constrained by his needs. And the last one is what we have been discussing here.
When you give 100% of whatever you want to give to a relationship -- and not a drop more ('giving' past what you feel comfortable with just sets up an imbalance where you start expecting something in return... or even demanding something in return... and real love is about freedom to give what feels right -- which can vary in every situation).
It is the 'expecting nothing in return' that is the hardest -- and what we have been talking about here.
When you become 100% responsible for your relationships -- 100% responsible for your own happiness without expecting anything from others -- it allows them to give you exactly 100% of what THEY want to give you, too. And that can be very revealing... and sometimes amazingly more wonderful than what you would have asked for.
And -- If what they offer isn't enough for you... then be like Granny Dukes -- and tell them to take a hike. Kick them to the curb. Then you are both free to move on with your lives without all the blame and shame and never-ending black-hole-of-disappointment. But remember -- they can change at any moment -- and so can you.
I was amazed what happened when I reached out to heal all those old relationships.
I was set free. My "shoulda/woulda/coulda" voices just shut right off -- leaving me free to think better/happier/healthier thoughts.
And now I am in the best love relationship of my life. I live in a fantastically beautiful place. I can honestly say that last year was BY FAR the best year of my entire life -- and that was despite my dx, lumpectomy, double mastectomy and reconstruction.
So yeah -- this way of thinking allows me to create a life that is, indeed, a complete bed of roses.
And -- So can each and every one of you.
My wonderful Dad taught me that even in his very last month of life -- after a year of chemo and radiation and a million treatments and appointments and surgeries... that he could choose JOY over regret. His grace and acceptance and incredible LOVE for everything in this life here on earth -- was an incredible inspiration. He taught me that 'tragedy' is just a potent time of 'opportunity'.
Life truly is 'Exactly what you make it'.
'Night all
Linda
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OMG I am literally laughing at the self righteousness.
I havent posted at length the entirety of my situation - I condense for ease of making a point therefore you have the merest snippet of who I am. There is no need to judge whether anyone here is "holding on", festering or whatever.
Someone promoting acceptance is coming off very opinionated.
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Ay yi yi. .
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You know, when someone has been cut, sewn up and then poisoned, seems to me that they have a right to feel hurt.
And when loved ones, only love themselves, that hurt is tripled.
Denying it won't make it disappear.
Time and love can help it ease. But I'm not sure it can ever disappear. You just learn to live with it.
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I tried to call my friend, but I didn't have her number. (my phone lost it-had to do factory reinstall few months ago) so I FB her. nothing nasty. I would like to have some sort of communication. Our girls are best friends. and I'd like her to be able to call/test me if she has issues with her blood sugar(she has diabetes-type 1)
so I will wait, and she will never call. I texted her in the fall, no reply, sent her FB message in nov.
this message today was longer, nicer. I have done all I can now. ball is in her court now.
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Yikes. Can't understand why someone would put forward the idea of letting go, yet advocate for moving to a "power position." Don't want to engage in any kind of a debate here: just making that clear.
I stand with every one of my sisters who have been hurt in this way. Period. It's my experience that we have gone out of our way not to be burdens, to put our needs forward. This forum isn't about that at all. I hope these sisters of mine know that you didn't bring this behavior about with your actions, or your needs, or your negative ions, or whatever. For Pete's sake.
There is no need to try to explain the thought processes behind the actions of those who have acted so cruelly (or, at best, with insensitivity). I won't make excuses for them. The idea that 'this is just how some people react' actually angers me. In fact, I think the smallest gesture would have been enough for many of us.
To those of you who have not been loved through this by close ones -- to those who were stunned by the treatment you received from those you thought close to you -- I send you an unlimited supply of gentle hugs. And I am wearing a soft bathrobe right now, so the hugs will be even more soft
{{{{{{sweet ones}}}}}}
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I realize that the fact that I revealed that I'm in my bathrobe does not put me in a "power position," but I chose to occupy this somewhat weaker position in order to have an honest relationship with you.
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