How to forgive family/friends who disappeared during cancer....
Comments
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bobo, where do you live? ;-)
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MsShelly- Thank you, BIG ((HUGS)) I agree that during this time it is a good time to make new friends also. You are right is you havent gone though it you cant understand it. But you can try.. if you cherish the relationship at least try..
Timbuktu- well said, I agree.
bobogirl, AGREE!!! Thank you for the gentle hugs, back at you.. and I am in my flannel jammies nice and warm.
This is an great thread, thank you all.
xo
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Mardibra, yes please, bring puppy. Just moved to Gainesville -- before this lived in Philadelphia. It's nice here! You're going to like it
Lemon: {{{}}}} I am in my favorite jammies -- it's only long dress, down to the floor. I have three of them. I never wore my other pajamas again after I bought the first one. My poor partner -- this is all she ever sees me wear in the house, and all three are the same
So when you are at my house, I will be serving you cake while wearing these jammies, most likely!
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I posted and had not read through all the posts.
Seashell, you chose a great topic, thank you.
We are all different and no one knows our pain when it comes to relationships other than us, what we feel for REAL inside. No one can tell us how to feel, we just feel as simple as that. Nor can we instantly read something someone else did or feels and say "hey thats what I will do" it doesnt work like that.
I am so sorry that some of you have had pain from children. Heartbreaking, I have sons although ages 19 and 13. I can only imagine how bad that must hurt. I am saddened by it as my husband hasnt spoken to his mom in 18 years. She being a Arabic women did not approve of me (Italian).. she has missed out of our sons and her son! And I might add ME! My hub loves my family and considers them his own, but there is a pain there that will never go away. Fight for your sons, I only wish my MIL would have fought for hers.
I am going to say this although I might get some flack... WE are fighting for our lives!! We have the right to feel anyway we want! We also have the right to be sad, scared and not ourselves without being judged by anyone. And WE do deserve some tender loving care from those around us..not because we are spoiled because WE Deserve it. I hope you all understand that and it came out right.
much love to you ALL, everyone of you. I have never felt so compelled on the boards to wish we were all in a room togethor. I know there would be laughing and crying but most of all a bond would be made so strong nothing could break it. Okay Im all teary now.
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Here here lemon. Nicely stated. Best wishes to all on your journey.
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Well said lemon!
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lemon68, AMEN!!!! No flack here! Well said.
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Lemon, I love what you said:
I am going to say this although I might get some flack... WE are fighting for our lives!! We have the right to feel anyway we want! We also have the right to be sad, scared and not ourselves without being judged by anyone. And WE do deserve some tender loving care from those around us..not because we are spoiled because WE Deserve it. I hope you all understand that and it came out right.
New at the boards. But it's my mission never to make any of my sisters feel as if they can't feel any way they want. Each one of us has her own experience.The only thing I might add to Lemon's excellent post is... let's get spoiled!!!
Don't you wish you were super-spoiled? I'm laughing, but I can't help picturing us -- we who have gone through much of this quietly, not making a fuss, perhaps thinking of children and doing for them, and perhaps not getting much support or the right support from family or friends -- I can't help picturing us spoiled. 'No,' we would say, 'not that chocolate. Bring me the salted one with caramel inside. And I want my favorite slippers, not these slippers.' Hmmm. My 'spoiled' dialogue is not coming out that well. I believe I need practice FL warrior, welcome! I am in FL too
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Recipe please for vegan chocolate cake!!
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Lily55:
I am not sure if this is the same recipe, but I have been baking this vegan cake for years. It's dang good. I am not a vegetarian and the cake I really prefer is a decidedly un-vegan Chocolate, Raspberry, Hazelnut Torte, but that's a monster cake we make only for special occassions. This recipe is something you can do quickly, easily and with minimal guilt. This is the same recipe I use, although these days I bake from memory and don't have this little web-posted recipe in the kitchen anymore.For the Cake
1 1/2 cups unbleached white flour
1/3 cup dutch-processed cocoa or unsweetened cocoa powder
1 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 cup granulated sugar
1/2 cup vegetable oil
1 cup cold water or cold brewed coffee (I usually opt for the coffee, since it adds a nice flavor - CP)
2 teaspoons vanilla extract
2 tablespoons vinegarFor the Glaze (optional)
1/2 pound bittersweet vegan chocolate
3/4 cup hot water or hot non-dairy milk
1/2 teaspoon vanilla extractMakes one 8-inch square or one 9-inch round cake
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Preheat the oven to 375°F.
Sift the flour, cocoa, baking soda, salt and sugar into an ungreased 8-inch square or 9-inch round baking tin or a large mixing bowl.
In a 2 cup measuring cup or medium mixing bowl, measure and mix the oil, cold water or cold coffee and vanilla. Pour the liquid ingredients into the baking tin or add into the large mixing bowl and mix the batter until smooth.
When the batter is smooth, add the vinegar and stir quickly. Pale swirls will occur where the vinegar and baking soda react, so don’t worry! Stir just until the vinegar is even distributed throughout the batter. If you’re using a mixing bowl, pour the batter into your baking tin.
Bake for 25-30 minutes. Set aside the cake to cool before enjoying.
If you are making the glaze, reset the oven to 300°F. Melt the chocolate in small ovenproof bowl or heavy skillet in the oven for about 15 minutes. Stir the hot water or hot non-dairy milk and vanilla into the chocolate mix until smooth.
Spoon the glaze over the cooled cake. Refrigerate the glazed cake for a minimum of 30 minutes before serving. Enjoy!
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OMG Lily -- Charles just posted my exact vegan chocolate cake recipe! Thanks Charles!
Lily, it's really good. As you can see you mix it right in the pan!
p.s. I use cacao instead of cocoa -- it's darker-tasting, and I think it might have more anti-oxidants.
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You're more than welcome bobogirl, although dang what has happened to my life? Here I am in a breast cancer forum exchanging recipes with "the girls." If I weren't so secure in my own masculinity, I would be worried at this point.
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we feel what we feel. There is no choice in this. There is denial and that is a choice.
My Mother, my sister, my ex, and at times both of my sons have all behaved in the most despicable manner to me over my cancer dx.
I feel angry, hurt disappointed, shocked. I work with my sons explaining empathy, compassion, moraity, and what it means to be loved. But they are young, that's ok.
But Mother, brother and sister.....have stood by and done nothing. Even when I asked. They did nothing. That is awful. Whichever way you look at it. As a consequence they are out of my life - and I feel better.
It seems to me when I read about others who have suffered this too on this site, and it is real suffering, have put themselves out for friends, family, others and for me,
They do so because they understand my feelings and accept them and I theirs. I hope.
Thank-God too, because without that I wouldn't have survived this.
what a shame strangers can do that and not my family.
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Wintersocks - too true........and profoundly sad but I do think that cancer is sooo scary for people on the other side (the non cancer side) they just avoid it.......horrible and deeply hurtful but seems to be the case......I have the ability to walk in someone else´s shoes so find it easy to empathise, even if I don´t always express it well and I think we are better off without those who make no effort to try our shoes in
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My mother and I had a long heated discussion last night about my older sister. You see, when I had my bmx last year, my older sister had not spoken to me in over 2 years. She has always felt I was the more loved and hence after 50 years, she stopped all contact. Because we live 4 states apart, it just seemed easier and time went on especially when all my attempts to reconcile with her went unanswered. So I never told her about my cancer or surgery until after the fact. So again she was angry that she didn't know about my surgery like my siblings that regurlarly spoke with me. For a solid year she never asked about me or even my prognosis. To this day she knows nothing about my cancer or recovery. She has spent much time talking to friends, relatives and anyone who will listen about her mistreatment and isolation. At Thanksgiving, I had a huge family reunion. She despite getting warm hugs from me and my kids, remained cold and unfeeling. Never ever asked how I was feeling even though I was recovering from another surgery. So yesterday I get a general " I am sorry but I do not know what I did" note from her. I stupidly told my mother who got upset with me for not immediently responding to her. She is out of my life and I do not care anymore. She never once asked about me or my family the entire year I went through the cancer journey. But my mother wants me to jump up and down that she has reached out to me. I am not angry just resolved that the sister that I needed is not the sister I have. Just trying to accept reality.
Thank you for letting me vent. In a weird way I don't feel so alone knowing yall have gone through similiar stuff.
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"I am sorry but I do not know what I did note" has a simple answer - YOU DID NOTHING SISTER.....!!!!! When I needed help the most you did nothing............so much for being a sister so if you want to know what you did, its simple you did not DO ANYTHING when you should have done SOMETHING....!!! Just maybe your sister needs to hear what it was and that is it, she knows she did nothing so can hardly argue, and if she does you can ignore her......
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Thank you Lily! I hate having my mom put me on a guilt trip but I let her do it. I truly appreciate your response. Sometimes it just feels good to have someone understand our frustration. Many thanks!
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I just want to get back to Wintersocks -- she is so great:
It seems to me when I read about others who have suffered this too on this site, and it is real suffering, have put themselves out for friends, family, others and for me,
They do so because they understand my feelings and accept them and I theirs. I hope.
I just agree with this so much. I feel like each person on this thread is making an offering to us when she tells us something that hurts her. A correction of any kind just seems wrong in that context.
I wanted to say also how little I think it would have taken to make any of us... happy, I guess... with these loved ones who let us down. I have a friend who says, 'Well, people are just up to their necks, they don't want to take on one more thing. They can't.' I've always felt that was sort of a slap in the face. Even though I'm well aware that people are suffering and that I'm not the center of the universe.
Grt42vbtexan, Lily, Wintersocks: those people missed out. We here are the lucky ones. {{{{}}}}
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Oh Bobo - what a great thing to write - its so true, just a few inutes a week for a phone call would have made a huge difference, instead I suspect I was pushed to the recesses and forgotten about - of all people family should be those whho make the extra effort to understand our struggle......
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Linda Ranching I hear what you are saying, I don' thtink you are being judgmental. But everyone reads things with through their own prisms, and reacts differently.. . I have been hurt by people/family re bc experience but I try in general to live and let live. I find it's counterproductive to call people on it, so I just take a break, move on, and then reconnect with these people at a better time.
I think of the couple of 'good' friends/one neighbor I posted about on the other page, both of whom I feel let me down during my diagnosis by disappearing. Each has been a good friend/came through /was there for me in the last couple of years with regard to other things I've asked them to help me with as friends (totally nothing to do with bc) ...and to think: if I held some kind of grudge, or onto some hurt for their lack of being a certain way around my illness, well then I would have just denied myself a great friendship. People are what they are...I do think they should be taken at face value. Those that you are really tight with, perhaps a spouse, a parent, perhaps a sibling, perhaps a child, you might tell of your disappointment at a certain appropriate time when it's all int he past and they might not get too defensive....but with friends? I do feel there's no obligation. Cerrtainly can be disappointment but I very much tried to let go of this and appreciate the things they can show up for.
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Although this crappy BC hand dealt makes me sad, reading this thread hurts the heart.. its so important and it does feel good to get it out, to feel support and know that there are others that have felt betrayed by those they love. I can feel my facial expressions in shock as I read and my eyes sting with tears.. just as that happens I feel a smile form from reading the kindness and love here.
then there is Charles giving a recipe for chocolate Cake!!!! Thank you Charles, I am going to try this and thank you for posting it just when we all needed a hunk of something chocolaty! (((HUGS)))
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Hello Bobogirl, Thanks for the update on your appointment last week. Sorry it took me so long to respond. I was away for the weekend and did not have my computer. Please keep us posted on upcoming appointments/results! Prayers continue...
All - Wow, lots of good conversation this weekend. I will join in tomorrow... too tired tonight! I just spent the weekend babysitting my first Grandchild (a boy!) 4 months old and just precious. I am tired and sore... from Bi-lat and tissue expander fills... and then holding a 15 pound little one. What a J
Y - - worth every bit of it! Also saw the ocean again... and tears of joy just to take in the beauty!! More tomorrow... g'nite!
xoxo
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bobo, you brought tears to my eyes with the statement about how little it would have taken.
I think that is so, so true. I don't think any of us are asking for the world. Just a little tiny bit of caring.
An acknowledgement that you are loved and worth something. That someone actually is THERE!
And when there IS no one, when there is a void where love should be...it makes everything unbearable.
I don't think people realize the power they have to help or hurt. Maybe it's the lesson we all learn through suffering.
Linda, it's a wonderful thought that we don't need anyone, that we're so powerful. I wish it were so.
But you know the song, People, people who need people, are the luckiest....I never did understand that song!
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Timbuktu... It 'is so' -- but only if you choose for it to be.
We can each choose to feel however we want to. Hurt/angry ... Happy/fulfilled... fascinated... inspired... intrigued... anything we choose... about any circumstance or event... including our cancer. And we have this choice in every single new minute.
It only takes an instant to experience epiphany. Only an instant to switch 'hurt' to 'acceptance' -- and change our self-perception from 'weak' to 'powerful'.
So -- You can keep imagining that 'void' -- or you could choose to 'fill that void' with something else (wonderful)... which is not dependent on your son.
Jessica -- you are exactly right about eveyone reading this (and on a larger scale: viewing the world) through their own filter (of past experience and expectations, and training, and religious beliefs, and every book/movie/class/conversation we each have experienced).
For most of my life, though, I didn't know that. I thought that my opinions were 'truth'. And, I think this is the way that most people feel (that their opinions about right/wrong and 'the way the world is' and 'what people should do' -- are 'truth').
What a huge responsibility to continually 'know' what everyone around us 'should' be doing... and all that judgmental self-talk made my life miserable!
But what I have come to believe now is that there is no such thing as 'truth'. All of our experience of life is completely subjective: open to ANY interpretation we choose to give it.
Therefore we can think of life/relationships as 'unfair' or 'hurtful' and that is exactly what they will be for us. That will be the 'reality' we create. And -- for us, as long as we choose to feel that way -- those relationships will only reward us with pain and more disappointment... because that is what we choose to feel about them. And -- the more conversations we have about this 'unfairness' and 'pain' -- the more entrenched we become in our 'position' that our perception is the 'TRUTH'. Our own perceptions become more and more rigid... and the possibility that these relationships can be any way other than what we espouse that they are... fades farther and farther from possibility.
Or we can choose to think of those exact same relationships and circumstances as 'interesting' and 'understandable' and 'able-to-be-reconcilled' ... and that is what they will become for us.
We can even decide that the relationship is now 'unimportant' -- and it will become that.
Or that this circumstance/relationship is the center of all our pain -- and they will become that.
Any emotion/connotation/meaning which we CHOOSE to attribute to our relationships/circumstances... will become exactly that for us.
These emotions are 'real' because we make them so. They don't exist outside of ourselves. Our hearts are NOT 'wounded' -- they function perfectly to keep our blood flowing... it is only our MIND that percieves the 'wound'. And our minds have the power to heal those previously-perceived-'wounds' -- without any change at all from the people we previously felt responsible for our sense of well-being.
We simply take charge of creating our own sense of well-being -- without relying on others.
In case anyone is interested in "letting go" of old 'hurt' from 'painful' personal relationships ... Below is a series of interesting links -- about NVC (Non-Violent Communication). Marshall Rosenberg is a pretty disarming speaker (sometimes he uses puppets to make his case (!). What he says really piqued my interest... and viewing these You-Tubes caused me to think in new ways... about taking responsibility for my own happiness, and releasing others from guilt. (For me) NVC was an early puzzle piece to my own understanding that we each think differently -- that self-righteousness is taught/embraced in our society -- and that our 'expectations' undermine not only our relationships, but our own happiness.
Anyway -- maybe someone will find these useful:
(part 1)
(part 2)
http://vimeo.com/10604415 (part 3)Hoping everyone finds something inspirational in your own thinking today -- to lead you closer to 'happy'!
Whatever path you choose is completely up to you.
Linda
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If we can choose how we feel, why would anyone choose to feel bad? Perhaps because they did not know that they “had a choice” they might need to be reminded that they do have a choice. But once reminded, then every depressed person would simply “stop” feeling depressed. I guess he just needs to think happy thoughts or remind himself not to think depressing thoughts.
I think you can choose to pretend. I can act happy all day long. I can make everyone around think I am happy as can be, but that doesn't mean I actually am.
It is beyond comprehension that depressed people feel this way by choice. To suggest that one can control his or her feelings of depression, or happiness for that matter, is to insult that person in the worst possible way. It is to suggest that they prefer depression and choose to be depressed. The idea that one chooses his victimization, is as true for the victim of depression as it is the victim of cancer. It is not a choice for either individual.
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Obviously we can remove ourselves from the people who hurt us -- as best we can -- and obviously all of us can attempt to move on from that. But from what I understand, that isn't really what this thread is about, at base. It's about people coming together and making an offering to one another about how they have been hurt.
I'm sure people would agree with me when I say these kinds of hurtful interactions don't always have a clear resolution. It's really about the offering. Please see Wintersocks' earlier post.
Yikes.
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Ditto Yikes.
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Science says that 'acting happy' does change our physicality. The act of smiling -- even if it is a 'false' smile -- just using those particulat facial muscles triggers our brain to send out endorphins that make us feel happier/better -- which then feeds the smile more reason to exist.
Plus, the obvious circumstance is that when we smile at others and look pleasant (even if we don't feel all that great inside) causes other people to smile back at us in return-- which leads us to 'feel better' in reaction to their smiles.
How do you react instinctively to people who are frowning? Probably you avoid them. People who are smiling? You probably smile in return and experience a little 'bubble' of brief warmth over the exchange. We can choose to cause this chain of events to take place -- just by putting a smile on our faces -- even if it isn't a completely sincere smile!
Our brains are uber-powerful. People forget to 'make choices' -- and often fall into re-action instead of creating/choosing. Often what we focus on are our 'problems' -- therefore the brain is engaged with depression/despair/fear -- and the more we feel that way, the more information our brain collects to support us in feeling depressed/despairing/fearful. Especially if we keep rehashing in our heads what someone else 'should' or 'shouldn't' have done or said.
Truly -- what good purpose does it serve to keep our heads full of these sorts of disappointments and judgments? The longer we nurse our angers/irritations -- the more energy we feed them -- the larger they grow. The more importance we give them, the more our brain searches similar circumstances to prove our negative ideas. We get so focused on what is 'wrong' that we forget to notice the beauty in life and the multitude of wonderful little magical moments all around us.
Of course with us cancer-patients -- we have lots of "material" from which we can create great (and dramatic) worries. Major surgery, chemo, raditation -- truly life-threatening stuff.
But -- even this -- even our own potential loss of life (in this human form) we can choose to 'see' differently. We can write an "Adventure" instead of a "Tragedy". Our body's health and even our own deaths can be (if we choose to) created to be inspirational and full of epiphany -- events in which we participate fully instead of things to dread.
This is meant as such a message of hope: We are not victims of our circumstances. We have the power to choose to see any event or circumstance as an opportunity to learn a life lesson -- and devise a method by which we find peace and comfort.
The last thing I mean to do is to insult or dis-honor anyone. If you feel depressed -- you absolutely do feel depressed. But -- it is (mostly) within your power to change that -- and that is fantastic news!
You can utilize these powerful new ways of thinking -- and actually change that (negative) way of feeling into something positive.
One caveat -- some of the drugs we take (AIs for instance) can really mess with our minds. These are powerful drugs that can alter our body's chemical make up, and trick us into frightening places within our own heads.
And -- If you feel chronically depressed, especially 'debilitatingly so' -- or if your are depressed for days on end... then please, please talk to your oncologist and discuss your options. I don't mean to say that everything we experience is 'correctable' through the power of choice... Out bodies have physical conditions, too -- and every single one of our bodies (cancer or not) are constantly undergoing change. Our bodies are in continual decline, and renewal. Eventually every single one of us will die. Might be the cancer -- might be something else. Doesn't really matter -- part of being in human form is that we all are on that path.
However, even with these physical changes, our mental attitude can greatly improve our sense of well-being and even alliviate at least some of our physical symtpoms.
Our mental attitude will determine our experience of this Life.
'It is beyond comprehension that depressed people feel this way by choice. To suggest that one can control his or her feelings of depression, or happiness for that matter, is to insult that person in the worst possible way. It is to suggest that they prefer depression and choose to be depressed. The idea that one chooses his victimization, is as true for the victim of depression as it is the victim of cancer. It is not a choice for either individual.'
It is only beyond some people's comprehension that this might actually be true. What you state above is certainly the way that most of us were raised to think.
But I ask you to consider that perhaps what we have been taught all these years simply was not 'true'. No insult intended at all -- only empowerment.
And -- about the victim idea -- I do believe that none of us are 'victims'... unless we choose to tell that story -- the one that keeps the 'victimization' alive. No matter how horriffic the situation -- there are some people who will rise above it, and some who will stay mired in living as a survivor of some terrible event.
I am certainly not a 'victim' of cancer. I also don't identify myself as a breast-cancer-'survivor'. I am not 'battling' cancer, or 'suffering' from cancer.
I am so SO much more than that -- my cancer doesn't define me. In fact, I often forget to mention it to new people I meet, and it is seldom a conversation that I have anymore with the people in my life.
When I do mention cancer -- it is usually in reference to some epiphany that bc has helped reveal to me!
I spent years (and years and years and years) in disappointment. This 'happened to me' and that 'happened to me' and then there was the string of 'unsupportive' or 'alcoholic' or 'abusive' people in my life....
My story about rehashing all my tribulations was unending.
Until I finally figured out that I was the only person who suffered from my own telling of that same old sad story. Yes, I could 'make friends' using that story, because other people had suffered the same way, and were more-than-happy to listen to me and share their own story-of-woe. They were happy to support my ideas that "I was right" and other people in my life had 'been wrong'. But commisserating only made my story more entrenched... like listening to the same sad song over and over and over.
Finding out I could 'change my internal-radio-channel' to one that played 'inspirational/happy' songs instead -- and that I could DO this with only a THOUGHT... a determination to stop telling the complaint and write a new story for myself that turned all those disappointments into lessons that brought me forward to this new (happier/more-empowered) place -- Now that was LIFE-CHANGING.
And if all this was simply an untested 'concept' -- then I wouldn't bother to continue posting here.
But the title of this thread is "How to forgive family and friends..." -- not "Let's all tell our stories of woe about people who have let us down".
And the (wonderful) truth is that I have NO complaints or anger anymore about a single family member or friend. I no longer have ANY unresolved relationships nibbling-away at my current happiness.
For me -- this method is not just 'theory' -- but it has actually worked. I am happier than I have ever before been in my life -- despite the loss of my dear/wonderful father (to cancer) in 2011, and my own dx of bc (and surgeries, treatments, tests, BMX, recon and continuting PT).
So -- My posts are in no way meant to insult or dis-honor anyone.
You can choose to continue to tell a story of anger and disappointment in family and friends.
You can choose to live in that complaint -- and easily find people who will support you in 'feeling your feelings' and making that story of disappointment into your continued reality. You have every right to choose that.
If this thread was called "Let's share our sad stories of disappointment in family and friends" I wouldn't still be posting here... in fact, I never would have opened the thread.
But new people picking up this thread might actually want to get past their hurt and move on (like the title implies).
And the GREAT news is that we absolutely CAN do that! In fact -- we can move past 'forgiveness' to just accepting the people in our lives, exactly as they are without judging them at all. We can accept whatever they offer and expect nothing more. We can let them 'be them' and have compassion for whatever may be making them in ways that we don't understand.
We can learn to not depend on them for our own personal sense that everything is "OK". Your happiness is not only a huge burden to lay on someone else... it is an unwise choice when you can easily (and MUCH more reliably) find your happiness within yourself, independent of other people.
But one of the first practical steps to doing that is to quit telling the same sad story over and over again... that is your past -- the way you used to choose to tell it.
You can recreate the same events into a story of JOY and EPIPHANY.
You can daily choose to create your unfolding life as an Adventure -- rather than Tragedy.
Linda
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I'll have whatever she's having.
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And still more Yikes.
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