STEAM ROOM FOR ANGER
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ChrisJack - I am sorry you are going through this, it really sucks. It sucks that family is not more supportive. You may need to find others for that. Do you have the opportunity to consult other specialist on reconstruction options? At a BC retreat many people expressed the frustration that people not going through this do not seem to understand the fear, pain, anger......... At a BC retreat, one person briefly talked about how much has changed with reconstruction over the years, and today, there are trials to see if nerves can be reconnected so that it feels and acts more real. You might have to go out of state for a more experienced surgeon. You should be able to get a second opinion.
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I agree utterly and with my whole heart that unvaccinated people with covid should not be allowed in hospitals and not treated. We should leave them to die in the parking lot because that is what their own stupid, pointless decisions and choices have brought upon them. In a world where a little poke could keep you safe from all harm, and you don't get it, well no medical care for you, you irresponsible bonehead!
Likewise alcoholics with liver failure shall die in the street.No one is forced to drink and if you do, well sucks to be you, stupid person. You can't get treatment because you are too stupid and morally pointless. What about drug addicts? Oh my god the time and resources they take overdosing and dropping over in the street like that. The reviving and saving only to have them do it again 10 days later. They can die in the parking lot along with the covids. Let's not overlook fat people who have heart attacks. Why the hell should we let them plug up beds? All that bacon and cheese they were stuffing in their face instead of running the Boston Marathon, no wonder they had a heart attack! No one MADE them eat all the cookies but since they did we have decided that they get to die in the parking lot, no care for them! Unwed teen mothers, find a manger to have your baby in and hope for three wise men to help you out because you sure didn't have to get pregnant, did you? Yet you did. You had other choices. But you made that choice so... off you go, to a barn, no room at the inn or the hospital cause we need that hospital unburdened by idiots who make bad life choices and you, pregnant teenager, have made one hell of a bad life choice! So we judge you and reject you and buh bye, off you go. We round out the list with broken legs that heli-skiers get when they jump out of helicopters to ski down mountains only to get hurled around in an avalanche and all busted up. What? You CHOSE to jump out of a helicopter on skis? Well of COURSE we're not going to let your dumb ass in here! Do you think we exist to help people in need? What do we look like, a HOSPITAL? No! We are a sanctuary filled with row on row of pristine beds that must remain EMPTY and our staff must remain NOT OVER WORKED and you can just flop around with that busted leg out there with the drunks, junkies, slobs and sluts. All of whom do not deserve and will not get our help! We do not help people because helping is what our society, culture and ethic is based on, oh hell no! We only help those who meet some arbitrary and impossible moral standard. Hospitals were not established to help the common man with his common problems, no, they were built to sprinkle holy water on those blessed few pure souls and saints that flit among us never making a bad choice. Of course those types rarely need hospitals but rather ascend to heaven in a cloud of light, arms outstretched as a choir of angels sing......
If my point is missed, not clear, or misinterpreted, let me correct that. Any person who having, in their imperfect life, received medical care without having to prove their moral worthiness, yet can utter the human hating sentiment that the unvaccinated should be left to die..... well, the problem is that there is no vaccine against the rotten, malevolent hatred that lurks in the hearts of humans. No hospital in the world can carve that shit out. I am sickened by what a sickening mindset that is. Not gender, not religion, not colour, not social status, should bar anyone from compassionate medical treatment in a civilized society. Frustration that your wife isn't getting treated is understandable, but so utterly incorrect to lay it at the feet of the unvaccinated. That is 100% exactly the same as saying your cow died because the woman next door is a witch and we should pile up twigs and burn her alive. Yes! Yes! We shall burn the witch and all bad things will quit happening. And we all know that witches are real and burning them made the world all safe and cozy and no more cows died, amen.
The unvaccinated should not be allowed in hospitals? Really? Oh dear god. I hope should someone you love ever do something stupid, something they should have avoided but didn't, and they need help, I hope to god that they are not met at the emergency room door by some moral bean counter. I vote for a world in which ALL PEOPLE are equally entitled to care, judgement free. There is nothing honest, kind, forgiving or Christian in thinking an unvaccinated person as anything but equal in all ways to yourself. It should be a shock to everyone to discover the depths of their own, inner darkness. We are all just people. We all bleed. We all die.0 -
Runor - I know you cannot hear or see me but I am giving you a standing ovation.
That bias does exist I have seen it in person. My brother has battled with epilepsy since the age of 9. On his 50th birthday I traveled to see him in Texas and we went out for a celebratory dinner. He had a couple of glasses of wine (as did I). During the early morning hours, he had a significant seizure, so we called 911 and off to the emergency room. Even though I repeatedly told personnel that he was epileptic and this was a seizure they were dismissive of him. I even had difficulty getting them to get us a blanket as he was tremendously cold. They thought he was just a drunk/high person so weren't particularly kind or careful with him. But boy did attitudes change once the attending physician understood what was actually occurring. Then here came the warm blankets, the IV, the care. It was very eye opening.
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Runor, Of course you are entitled to your rant. And in the U.S., where vaccinations have, unfortunately, become a political issue, we are entitled to express our frustration and even rage at people who refuse vaccines and wearing masks not because they are poor, unfortunate lost souls, but because they are nasty shits who brag about "owning the libtard sheep." These people attend school board meetings, unmasked and unvaccinated, and demand that schools not require masks, because it somehow interferes with their freedom. Some of them have confronted others up close, yelling in their faces and even spitting. So excuuuse me if I feel the need to be hyperbolic and wish nasty things on those thoughtless, vicious rat bastards, and the politicians who have encouraged them. It's called letting off steam, I'm sure you've heard of it. /s
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runor - What? No. The anti-maskers/anti-vaxxers are not comparable to any of those you mentioned. None of the others take over all hospital resources. Don't know how you brought up witchcraft when a stage IV cancer patient was kicked out due to too many COVID patients. That's crazy talk. Don't cancer patients needing fluid drained belong in the hospital? The man in the video was not saying hospitals shouldn't treat anti-vaxxers. Clearly the hospital prioritized them over his wife. He said "If you don't trust the medical field to prevent you from getting it, why do you trust them to cure you of it?" He put the onus on the COVID-stricken anti-vaxxers to have the strength in their convictions to stay away from the medical field that they don't trust.
Yesterday the Texas governor announced he's COVID+. He'll be fine. He's fully vaccinated. He's asymptomatic, but received the monoclonal antibody treatment. He'll be fine. But Texas officials expect others won't be fine and requested morgue trailers.
Everyone unvaccinated is vulnerable to the Delta variant. Death is not the only bad outcome. I wouldn't trust my immune system. It let cancer grow.
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Good timing with this topic! Because this week I was angry at those who refuse to get vaccinated and are delaying return to normal life for the rest of us. I'm angry that they selfishly put children's life at risk who can't get vaccinated. I'm angry at their casual ungratefulness while low to medium income countries would kill to have such easy access to these vaccines and are dying in droves while ours are going to waste in fridges. The juxtaposition of that image is grotesque.
We shouldn't refuse treatment for the unvaxed, no, but we should have a DNR type document to enable those who refuse vaccine sign and accept that ICU beds are not guaranteed for them. We've had 18 months of delayed surgeries, late cancer diagnoses and countless other diseases that will only show their full catastrophic impact in the next few years. We simply can't afford to delay any more surgeries just because some choose to refuse the vaccine and prefer to take up ICU beds. You would think it would be easy for them to sign that document, after all it's just a flu and their immune system will take care of it.
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Runor, you have a marvelous gift with words, and the things you say are always powerful and moving. However, that doesn't make them either true or right. Laying responsibility for hospital shortages at the feet of those who refuse both vaccines and physical control measures such as masks is NOT like saying "my cow died because my neighbor is a witch". It's like saying, with ample proof, "my cow died because my neighbor put poison in her feed."
The comparison with smokers, overweight people, drug addicts, etc. is a wonderfully effective rhetorical device, and just about the best argument you could bring to the defense of the willfully unvaccinated. However, it conveniently glosses over one key difference - that none of those people are actively, regularly trying to kill everybody else. If I were inclined to make comparisons for emotional shock value, I would probably compare them with enemy combatants or suicide biological bombers. Indoctrinated, misinformed or simply uninformed "freedom fighters" in a twisted, unnecessary and avoidable civil war. Yes, of course you provide medical care even for enemy combatants. I don't think anybody here is genuinely thinking antivaccine Covid patients should be denied medical care. But the widow of a soldier who died awaiting medical care because the enemy combatant was in worse shape and got treated first has a right to be pissed, and so does the husband of the MBC patient. It's easy to be holier than thou on the internet, but in real life, we are all human, heart darkness and all, and sick and tired of sacrificing chunks of our already severely shortened lives for someone else's misguided interpretation of freedom.
I, too, would vote for a world in which all people are entitled to the same exquisite level of care, judgment free and free of cost. Alas, that is not the world most of us live in. In the dark days of spring 2020, hospitals in the US Northeast were preparing for the eventuality of having to prioritize patients for ventilators. When you have one vent and two patients gasping for it, you have to decide in which ways their lives are NOT equal. Looks like some hospitals in the South are rapidly heading in the direction of having to prioritize life-extending treatments and implicitly deciding which lives are MORE worth fighting for. Is it a purely medical decision - who has the best chance of making it out alive, prioritizing those in better health? Do we count life-years saved, condemning the old and the terminally ill? Does societal worth come into play, prioritizing parents and the gainfully employed over the poor and the lonely? Is "moral blame" so different of a consideration from the above that it is intrinsically less fair than everything else?
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It's not often we hear from healthcare workers on the COVID front line. They continue to provide care to all, but can we give them a break? They simply want more people to get vaccinated.
https://www.statnews.com/2021/08/18/health-workers-overwhelmed-covid-deaths-among-unvaccinated/
Louisiana is about 38% fully vaccinated.
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Brava, Piggy. Brava. You beat me to the rebuttal I was getting ready to write.
There is absolutely no comparison between an overweight diabetic and the suicide bombers that are the unvaccinated. The former only harm themselves (sad and preventable as that may be) while the unvaccinated (often gleefully) take out others with their willful ignorance. It's like comparing twinkies to radioactive waste.
Their deathbed conversions notwithstanding, so many of them equate not getting the vaccine as "sticking it to the libtards". Yeah, you showed us alright.
To me, getting the vaccine is, much like paying taxes, the price we pay to live in a civilized society. You don't want to be forced to do either? Great. Go live in Somalia. You'll quickly see what absolute "freedom" really looks like.
"With great freedom comes great responsibility".
Climbing down off my soapbox now.
Trish
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wrenn - Great article. Things aren't as dire here in Canada, but cases have been on the rise even before in-person school started.
Even the hermit got vaccinated!
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I don't get how some people don't trust medicine and drs about the vaccine but if they get sick they suddenly trust them, go into the hospital and sometimes get treatments that are also only under emergency authorization or are completely off label. There's a dissonance there that I just don't understand. I wonder why they didn't stay home if they trust their immune system and their bodies and Jesus and green smoothies so much
& fwiw, non covid med-surg hospital wards are essentially the trifecta of high BP, type 2 diabetes, and coronary artery disease (and possibly plus some presenting problem that is usually tied to one or more of the 3). These are things which are heavily influenced by lifestyle & personal choices. Nurses & physicians don't deny care (though after a while, there are staff who want to switch to prevention rather than acute care, hoping they can head this off...) So it's nothing new for HCW to be providing care while thinking to themselves "you know, this didn't have to happen".
Also don't like hearing "don't trust doctors/big pharma" when it's doctors and big pharma keeping me alive (literally - huge fricking multinational pharma is giving me a drug for free which I wouldn't otherwise have)
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I don't know whether to laugh or cry. These people should just stay home and stop wasting healthcare resources. My husband is a regular blood donor (O+). They don't track COVID vaccine status. Only asked if vaccinated in the past 3 months. They were ok with COVID and shingles.
https://khn.org/news/article/tainted-blood-covid-s...
Also, people who donate blood are also more likely to get vaccinated to end a pandemic.
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SerenitySTAT, Holy 💩. How much you wanna bet it's jackasses trying to make life as difficult as possible for other people just because they can, and they get their miniscule rocks off making those people run in circles to accommodate them (which they probably think of as "serving their masters"). Screw them. With sharp rusty objects.
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Alice - It sounds very white supremacist to me. I wish I could deny them my blue-eyed white boy husband's "tainted" blood, but I leave those decisions to medical professionals. Screw them and their lapsed tetanus vaccine.
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Alabama family practice doc requiring COVID vaccination for treatment. He's done watching them die from COVID.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/18/a...
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Right, the husband of that poor stage iv woman who got kicked out of the hospital early to make room for unvaccinated covid patients is not saying hospitals should refuse to treat anyone. He is saying that people who refuse vaccination because they distrust medicine and/or believe covid is not a big deal, should abide by their stated principles and not do an about-face and demand to be treated when they get sick with covid. He is pointing out their hypocrisy and selfishness.
Me too, moth! As you said, "huge fricking multinational pharma is giving me a drug for free which I wouldn't otherwise have)"
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Re alcoholics and drug addicts--substance abusers. Having worked in Addiction Medicine/drug treatment for a long time and in charge of substance abuse treatment conferences-- conferences for MDs, nurses, PhDs, social workers, etc. Not that this is to defend substance abusers but to bring up an issue of treatment that many are unaware of. A great number of substance abusers are what we call 'dual diagnosis' which means that the abuser also has a mental health comorbidity--depression, bipolar, anxiety etc. With these coexisting diagnoses, long term sobriety is extremely difficult to maintain until the underlying issue of depression et al is addressed. This kind of treatment is expensive. No to go on a big diatribe but just wanted to bring up an aspect of treatment that many are unaware of, including some of the treatment providers. When I was working in treatment in San Francisco, there was a waiting list of 700-800 waiting for a treatment slot to open. No expensive inpatient treatment but outpatient. I've had some personal experience, I'm 37 years clean and sober.
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Runor - love you for being an agitator. Good thinking & discussion achieved - what I'm sure was your desired result.
And hooray for the Alabama doc who is no longer treating the unvaxed.
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Cowgirl - 37 years! Incredible achievement! You should be proud of yourself. 🎉👍
Minus - 😉
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Minus Two - didn't mean so much to be an agitator as much as express that I am agitated and have been for almost two years now. I have read everyone's response and it is obvious that this topic / world event is terribly divisive and probably the 'truth' about it will not truly be grasped until all of us here are pushing up daisies somewhere. It is the height of arrogance, in my opinion, for any human on this planet to announce that they know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. We simply do not know. What you WANT to be true might not be. Only time will tell. Lots of time.
Someone (sorry, forget who) said my post was a 'rant' . Of course it was a rant! Is this thread about people who want to join hands and sing kumbaya? Are we only allowed to steam when that steam meets someone's personal criteria for acceptable steam? No! The point of this thread is to let it out. So I did. You're welcome. Ranting is welcome. I am happy that I am able to clear this confusion up for anyone who feels that group think is a posting requirement. Nope. It is not.
Wren, assholedom (good one)? Are you calling me an asshole? I assume that you are vaccinated. I assume you wear masks and sanitize your hands. Has anyone denied you a vaccine, ripped a mask off your face or hogged all the hand sanitizer? No? Then you have not encountered any assholes. If being unsure, concerned, waiting and watching makes me an asshole, then I guess I am an asshole. It's a fun place to be. We have T-shirts!0 -
Runor--just this... "good job."
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wrenn - At my hospital I've had to ask people to put their masks up. The last one was an asshole who ignored me twice. I reported him to security. In the middle of cancer patients waiting to get blood drawn, I have no patience for that and more than willing to speak up. Don't understand people who complain about them. Surgeons wear them for hours without fainting.
runor - The vast majority of public health experts want to get the world vaccinated. More and more people who were waiting and watching are now pushing up daisies. The unvaccinated are the ones hospitalized prolonging the pandemic and allowing variants to spread.
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Wrenn, I had to laugh that you forgot what point you were making . I find myself staring into the open freezer and asking , what was it that I came here to get? Some days just getting my pants on is a feat of focused remembering. I blame it on tamoxifen.
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Wrenn, Alice holds the title there. I know when I am out- gunned.
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For the record...Love you, runor!
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SerenitySTAT, you said you had to report someone to security who would not wear a mask in the cancer center. Well, I had to report a cancer center security guard!
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@runor - I love your style and it's never boring 😄
My rant for the day and I do realize this is nothing compared to what many of you are going through. I'm supposed to have gallbladder surgery tomorrow. 'Supposed to' because I'm not sure I'm doing it. I'm beyond pissed off at the general surgeon. I had a consult last week after the ER referred me due to a gallstone attack earlier this month. She spent a whole 8 minutes with me (yes, I timed it).
I checked my patient portal today and noticed the visit notes from last week's appointment were uploaded. The notes were ~50% accurate. The other 50% was from another patient(s). My records indicated I take 18 medications for a variety of ailments ranging from diabetes to high BP to heart disease. I don't take ANY of these medications and do not have ANY of these conditions. I called her office to discuss. An addendum with the correct info was added within 2 hours. I received a phone call from the practice supervisor apologizing and explaining they would be implementing a safety incident report and 'that this had never happened before'. I nicely explained I was given the same response of 'it has never happened before' last year when a radiologist sucked out a marker from biopsy #1 (and broke the machine) while doing biopsy #2 so I spent a few extra minutes in the mammo machine while they replaced the equipment. Same hospital system, but 2 different facilities.I wonder if I can really trust the surgeon to do a relatively simple surgical procedure? But if I don't do it tomorrow, I'll need to find another surgeon and reschedule. I gotta think this over tonight.
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Harley07, how frightening! IF you decide to go through with it, I'd insist on a witness present for the pre-op run-through and make the surgeon do a checklist, and have the anesthesiologists do the same checklist with a witness.
My rants have become more abrupt and less refined over time because I seem to be losing my written language skills, so I have to get to the point before I forget what it is, or forget the words to express that point. It sucks because for most of my life, I was the go-to person in a variety of situations for fairly eloquent writing, particularly of the persuasive type. I really hate that I've lost most of that ability.
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Thank you Alice. Perhaps I’ll have DH stay thru pre-op and then he can head to work.
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Oh Harley How awful. You know you need the surgery and I do not blame you for being worried. I agree make sure you have not only a support person if you can have one as a witness and advocate but also a nurse double checking everything first. Keep us posted.
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