Ringworm drug for dogs (Fenbendazole) might also cure cancer
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Frisky thank you so much . That really means a lot. I think I am in a fog right now like in over drive. One minute I am just going...and the next I just start crying. I feel like I JUST started getting use to the fact that I have Stage 4 and the treatment and now thats not working and there is more cancer. I need to get through this PET on Friday. Praying nothing else is new.
I wanted to share with you all that I was going to start Fenben the pure fenben though not the pincer...I wanted to take it by rectum my thought was that it might be less taxing on the liver...but and this is TMI sorry...I have an anal fissure...and because I have bleeding we made the decision last night not to do it that way. So I will probably be starting the fen ben next week. We are also just getting into the thick of Janes book and since I wont be on Ibrance I may not have to worry about some of the supplements interacting.
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Nicole, I had not heard that you had progress, I suppose you published it in some thread that I do not read. I'm sorry! I'm glad you are going to start fenben, I hope it do the trick for you! Big (((Hugs)))❤❤❤
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Thanks Sonia...I started to post it here yesterday but I didn't want to highjack the thread with that so I put it in the Ibrance and the Liver Mets thread. *sigh* it's rough right now emotionally. My stress level yesterday..was seriously off the chart. We are having a housing issue here on base and it got the better of me (now of course in the grand scheme of things) its totally irrelevant but the stress yesterday laying in the MRI I do not think I have ever in my entire life felt THAT stressed...I felt like I could feel the cancer growing and spreading from my stress and I am sure it had been...it was so horrible.
I feel bad for my husband....
Yes I am hoping something does the trick! Thank you for your well wishes.
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Nicole, I'm sure you will take everything into consideration before making a move. You've been studying and preparing for a while, I believe you'll do just fine. Believe in yourself.
Ultimately, what we're learning from the FB posts, is that success is achieved in individuals ways. Some people get results by taking 2gm 3 days @ week, some by taking 4gm everyday...there are no certainties, but without taking some risks, there's also no gains...
I too worry about my liver, but not taking it, not trying to win this battle is not an option. When and if I go, I want to do it trying...
For stress Ashawaganda is the way to go. Even MSK approves it...and they never say yes to anything complimentary...
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Nicole, was sorry to read your update, stay strong and don’t fear chemo if that’s where this road leads. If Taxol is a possibility it’s very tolerable for most of us. Hugs to you.
As for me, I just got injected, waiting for the PET and sitting here starving. Definitely going to lunch as soon as I get out of here. I’m even looking forward to drinking the chalky cocktail in 40 minutes.
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Thank you Olma.
Frisky thanks for the recommendation about stress I am going to look into that stuff. I like what you said about "when I go, I want to do it trying"...I want to feel like that.
So what do you all think about diet and these protocols? I mean my father in law send me info on the Gerson diet..Ya know its like 200oz of kale and carrot juice a day plus these supplements that I never heard of. I know people are constantly saying cancer loves sugar...but there was a woman who did that Gerson Diet on FB the other day she was cancer free for 9 years now she says its back with a vengence and she was still doing raw juicing all those years.
The other thing is I have learned that my cancer uses or was using (who knows now) the Glutamine pathway most..that means avoiding high protein and of course sugars. I would say I am 90% carb free and 95% Dairy Free and in the high 90s sugar free..I have been intermitting fasting for about 13-16 hours .but I look emaciated....seriously I look horrible and I don't feel all that great either. I am not herxing its not like that I just don't feel great...I thought I was suppose to feel better eating healthier? I am almost afraid to eat anything now...if it's not vegetables or fresh berries/fruit I am scared to eat it that it's going to feed my cancer. I just don't know if I can do green juices every single day.....even with having veggies for dinner. How the heck can I gain weight (and I need to) on veggies, no sugar, no carbs...low low meat?
So any tips on what you all eat and think about eating with the protocol fenben or Janes...I would love to hear.
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the Gershon diet is tough to follow...there are many rules and regulations and tons of carrots to juice every day.
What we learn from Jane, is that cancer cells will switch feeding grounds when we starve ourselves of a particular type of food. The idea is to block all the various pathways that the cancer cells use to get to the feeding grounds with those off-labels medications.
I'm following a relatively balanced diet. I have greatly reduced meat, poultry and fish because they are the most polluted forms of proteins, plus I love animals and I don't approve of the way they are treated.
I eat the beyond burgers, ounce in a while, but manly it's organic complex carbs and vegetables with low glycemic fruits. I eat small amounts of aged cheeses that are imported. No sodas, no dairy, or commercially produced foods and desserts etc etc...my weakest link is bread...I just love bread and butter!
But I don't necessarily recommend what I eat...its' just that after a while, as you're finding out, there's not much left that is safe.
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Nicole, I can't give you great advice in relation to food vs cancer because it is a very controversial topic... It seems logical to think about following a diet to "starve cancer" but it turns out that everything that feeds us, feeds cancer too... so if I were you, I would try to eat as naturally as possible (like a macrobiotic diet or something) and I would do the fenben protocol. Joe has said that he has not changed his diet during protocol (I assume that means he ate the typical american diet)
I mencioned only FZ protocol because I'm not familiar with the COC protocol, I think there are people who can advise you better with that
Frisky, we have crossed posts, but I think we have quite agreed
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Yes Sonia, eating as cleanly as possible is the way to go, but like you said, Joe didn't change his diet and there's plenty of people out there that should be, but are NOT sick...
I just feel lousy when I indulge for more than a day on the forbidden stuff, such as a commercially produced desserts, alcohol, or nutritionally empty foods...
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thanks Frisky and sonia... frisky I LOVE BREAD. Bread and cheese are the hardest things I have given up. I will just keep doing what I have been doing then.
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My diet is not so clean either, I think it is a balance between what I should eat and what I can accomplish. I have abandoned sugar, dairy products (except cheese from time to time), mostly processed flours ... but sometimes I need 🍫. I hold on to the hope that the fenben and all the other things I'm taking will be effective despite everything
Side note: a while ago I was chatting with a lady who is originally from Paraguay, we was talking about breast cancer and I mentioned fenben. She told me that in Paraguay people takes some product called ivomec to cure cancer... I googled ivomec, it is ivermectina, another antihelmintic...
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Nicole, I am so sorry to hear of your progression. I send you a huge hug. I hope you get a new plan in place soon, and that the Fenben works like gangbusters for you.
Re diet....
According to Dr Block, the healthiest diet with the best survival stats is a vegetarian / whole foods diet with some fish. (Pescatarian). Deep sea wild caught fish is best. Low fat (<20%), and low in animal protein. No refined carbs, but whole grains are ok and legumes (beans, lentils) are ok. No potato except sweet potato. No white rice. No deep fried. Focus on above-ground veggies and low glycemic fruits (berries, stone fruits, kiwi are best), nuts & seeds, avocado, olive oil, olives. And say away from "the dirty dozen" most pesticide-laced foods unless you can find organic versions. "Life Over Cancer" is the book that outlines all the details of his recommendations.
I discovered a nut milk kefir (Califia) which is a lot like a dairy kefir, and coconut yogurt (Cocoyo) -- both "plain"-- which are great for a smoothie in place of yogurt. I miss dairy but I was eating way too much pre diagnosis. I do have a little bit of cheese (organic) as a 'seasoning' -- like some feta cheese in a large green salad. I keep all my "semi-forbidden" foods in one drawer in the fridge so I am reminded not to have too much... cheese, butter, etc.
If you can find grass-fed /organic meat and poultry, I was told they are ok for an occasional treat but not as typical daily foods. One egg yolk/week and unlimited egg whites.
I re-read the Dr Valter Longo fasting info the other day. He personally feels that a 12-13 hour window of not eating is sufficient for your daily routine, because a longer fast is not necessarily more helpful and can be counter productive if taken to an extreme. Better to do the 11 hours per day of eating and then boost it with a BRIEF (5 day) very low cal "fasting mimicking' diet every few months, followed by "re-feeding" with very nutritious foods after the 5 days of "fasting mimicking." Apparently the re-feed is key to re-boot the immune system. He has a book and also there is a ton of info online. On his website are some really nice vegetarian recipes. FM diet is very low cal but not a complete fast... it tricks your body into thinking you are fasting, but it's easier to stick to.
If you wind up on a new chemo he suggests the fasting mimicking start 2 days before chemo, so chemo day is the mid point of the 5 days, and then re feed begins 2 days after chemo. I did this during my chemo and I think it helped me with SEs.
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PS Dr Block gives a lot of supplements. But some are foods.... "organic super greens" is a powder made from the dessicated juice of very healthy greens. You take a scoop a day. He likes Reishi mushrooms (OM Reishi) and matcha green tea, also powdered food. I would so an am smoothie with berries, the Califia and Cocoyo (both also probiotic) and the above food based supplements, and some ice. Good breakfast, low cal, no bad stuff, and tasty!
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Just popping in to offer the suggestion that if you are looking for foods to add to your diet, you might consider the recommended foods on foodforbreastcancer.com. You might take a look at walnuts in particular if you are looking to gain weight (and even if you aren't).
Nicole, sorry to hear about your progression. Wishing you, and everyone on this list, all the best!
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Thanks Santa..I am googling Dr Valter Longo to look into the fasting stuff.
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Haven't been on here for a day or so, but wanted to say I also have felt I've been getting signs to pray to St. Therese the Little Flower and had just started a novena to her a few days ago. She is the saint I took for my confirmation name and I've had a special devotion to her since childhood after reading a book about her life. So yesterday on her feast day I had prayed for her to intercede for me and everyone on this forum--but especially sweet Yndorian1 who was starting to have some skin issues from rads. So reading about the men at the bus Yndorian1 actually made me cry. I just went to the national shrine site and put in a prayer request for the Carmelite nuns to pray for everyone on these forums, especially Nicole.
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hi nicol , I went through a stage of not eating as well ...lost weight , look horrible - can relate. I said "sod it" and went back to eating as before as losing weight from being already slim and on chemo and feeling I will faint any minute was not the way forward. I tried fasting before and after chemo . The last time I did not fast. I feel far better now. I reckon apart from veggies legumes and grains and wholemeal pasta are fine. So weight should not be an issue specially if you do not try to eliminate meat and dairy completely but just reduce it , at least initially. I am in no way qualified to advise, just going through the same and sharing what happens to me. My commiserations re liver , hugs, hang on there, your oncologists would know what to do. When I mentioned medication load to my complementary therapist she said she has not come across mebendasole causing any liver issues before.
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greetings to all, sorry I do not react much to what you write now - driving 500 miles round trips twice a week to a complementary therapy clinic and another train journey that results in me leaving home at 8 am and coming back at 11 for chemo take toll...
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Thanks Mystic, that means a lot to me. Thank you❤
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Anotherone..thanks.
I should have mentioned I do eat meat and when I do meat/chicken it is organic grass fed. I use to eat red meats chop meat/steak/london broil I would say 3 times a week... and chicken 2 or vice versa Salmon one night and vegetarian the others. Now its more like red meat once a week chicken 2 times salmon one night and vegetarian the other nights. Right now I am having such a problem going #2 even if I have soft stool I can't get it out! I saw a proctologist about a month ago for the Anal Fissure she gave me a medication but mostly said do sitz baths..so I am having to have prune juice which is high in sugar -no added sugar each morning and have rasin bran organic and have it with macadamia nut milk but still the cereal does have gluten... now though, that is not even helping so I am going to have to do green smoothies I don't want to to because I got burned out on them several years ago but I went to the bathroom everyday easily. I was having them for breakfast and lunch though I have a cup of coffee probably 3 times a week and I use a tablespoon of half and half I do not want to give that up. Today I had a non dairy yogurt and I added 2 tablespoons of organic granola...and I felt guilty bc I know its carbs
but I just cannot have NO carbs at all I can't ...maybe one day I can..but right now its a struggle.I have to say yesterday not intentionally but I had fasted for 16 hours I ate brussels sprouts and salmon for dinner... I felt horrible all day and night just like I was starving! I am only going to do like 13-14 hours fasting.
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Hi Nicole,
Jane mentioned the low gi diet in her book. It is basically eating clean but does include carbs (wheat bread, rice, beans) other than fruits and vegetables. I have found that much easier to follow than a strict low carb diet.
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Thanks Simone my DH and I didn't get to that part of the book yet. I think I basically do low Glyc though anyway...I cannot have rice it makes my poop hard and constipates me this is such an issue since the ibrance its just awful. I decided I am starting the green smoothies tomorrow I have too nothing else is working not even my magnesium and if I take more or take Mag. Oxide which is usually the best one as a laxative it makes my poop a weird color like almost yellow so I don't want to take that. Sorry for TMI
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The diet blocks the insulin pathway. Maybe add some wheat bread and beans back in your diet? That might help and also help slow down the weight loss.
I've had to do the magnesium (Epson salts) flush a couple of times to get things moving again.
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Sonia, thank you for bringing my attention to Ivermectin, another powerful anti parasite drug that's being successfully used against BC in conjunction with chemotherapy. Been reading extensively about this wonder and relatively innocuous drug. What's amazing about it is that a single dose is good for one year! We can thank the Japanese and Merck for this amazi drug
I'm going to bring this up with my oncologist next week...the only problem I see, it’s metabolized in the liver, and not recommended for people with liver disease.Ivermectin Induces Cytostatic Autophagy by Blocking the PAK1/Akt Axis in Breast Cancer
https://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/canres/early/2016/07/17/0008-5472.CAN-15-2887.full.pdf
Ivermectin as an inhibitor of cancer stem‑like cells
Ivermectin reverses the drug resistance in cancer cells through EGFR/ERK/Akt/NF-κB pathway
https://jeccr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13046-019-1251-7
Our results indicated that ivermectin at its very low dose, which did not induce obvious cytotoxicity, drastically reversed the resistance of the tumor cells to the chemotherapeutic drugs both in vitro and in vivo. Mechanistically, ivermectin reversed the resistance mainly by reducing the expression of P-glycoprotein (P-gp) via inhibiting the epidermal growth factor receptor (EGFR), not by directly inhibiting P-gp activity. Ivermectin bound with the extracellular domain of EGFR, which inhibited the activation of EGFR and its downstream signaling cascade ERK/Akt/NF-κB. The inhibition of the transcriptional factor NF-κB led to the reduced P-gp transcription.
Conclusions
These findings demonstrated that ivermectin significantly enhanced the anti-cancer efficacy of chemotherapeutic drugs to tumor cells, especially in the drug-resistant cells. Thus, ivermectin, a FDA-approved antiparasitic drug, could potentially be used in combination with chemotherapeutic agents to treat cancers and in particular, the drug-resistant cancers.
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That is very interesting about ivermectin. It is both an approved drug for humans and animals, and is available over the counter for the veterinary version.
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Dear Nicole, I am sorry, I misunderstood in another thread that you were oligometastatic but still, if you have confined lesions in your liver and bones, you can be considered as one. Some studies now are trying to expand the term "oligometastatic" because some people with clear confined lesions even in few organs and treatments working, experience amazing results. Not to say I am convinced everyone (I said this many times here) should be treated with curative intent, I think you should be too. So now PET, then good results, then good treatment, then NED and we'll talk about it all in 5 or 10 years. I wish you this scenario from the bottom of my heart. Please keep us posted!
Dear Frisky and others: are you still on FenBen? I see other options emerging, which is very interesting. Thank you for your research! Saulius
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Saulius, I'm currently taking 4gm of fenben with the vitamin E and curcumin and will continue taking till my next scan TBD. I'm also on metformin, and statins. Just rotated out of the doxycycline.
I love the idea of a one dose solution though....I'm going to figure out the amount, and hopefully my primary physician will be kind enough to help me. There are many published studies with excellent results, it shouldn't be too hard.
Mouse and Human Triple Negative Breast Cancer Cells
Dr Dragonov reports that Mouse and human TNBC cells are sensitive to Ivermectin with IC50 values as low as 2 μM with 24 hr exposure time.(9) CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TRANSLATE WHAT THAT MEASUREMENT MEANS?
Ivermectin Induces Immunogenic Cell Death
Dr Dragonov reports that beneficial long-term clinical response after chemotherapy involves stimulation of a robust anti-cancer immune response, also called induction of "immunogenic cell death (ICD)". Ivermectin is one agent which induces ICD immunogenic cancer cell death, and therefore may induce long term or permanent remission after treatment.(9)
Synergy with other Chemo Agents
Dr Dragonov reports Ivermectin cancer cell killing effects synergistic with chemotherapeutic agents such as doxorubicin (Adriamycin) and paclitaxel (Taxol) which induce ROS (reactive oxygen species).(9) One might speculate Ivermectin would synergize with Artemisinin compounds which induce ferroptosis, a form of oxidative cell death. One might also speculate on Ivermectin synergy with alpha lipoic acid (ALA) which increases electron flux through the mitochondrial electron transport chain.
https://jeffreydachmd.com/2016/05/ivermectin-antiparasitic-anticancer-wonder-drug/
The 2015 Nobel Prize in Medicine went for discovery of Ivermectin, an "astonishingly safe" FDA approved anti-helminthic drug. 200 million people take the drug globally for prevention or treatment of parasitic disease.
Inhibits WNT Pathway
Dr Alice Melotti studied Ivermectin as an inhibitor of the WNT‐TCF pathway in cancer. Her report was published in 2014 EMBO molecular medicine. Dr Melotti used a transcriptional reporter assay for TCF activity driven by Beta-CATENIN to test a collection of 1,040 drugs and small molecules. Only one agent, Ivermectin, perfectly tracked the gene expression profile induced by blocking the TCF gene, and therefore inhibits the WNT pathway. This has profound significance for anti-cancer stem cell therapy, because blocking the WNT pathway is the key to killing cancer stem cells. (15-16) Blocking the WNT pathway in a breast cancer model killed cancer stem cells.(18) Similarly, blocking the WNT pathway in Mantle cell lymphoma preferentially killed the cancer stem cells.(16)
Other useful inhibitors of the WNT pathway which target cancer stem cells include dietary agents curcumin and the small molecule PKF118-310, a fungal product. (17) In addition to curcumin, other natural, dietary WNT- Inhibitors include sulforaphane, ECGC, resveratrol, retinoids and curcumin. (19)
Dr Sharmeen reported ivermectin blocks the glutamate-gated chloride channels, increases intracellular chloride ion concentrations and cell size of leukemia cells. This causes plasma membrane hyperpolarization. Ivermectin also increased (ROS) reactive oxygen species in cancer cells functionally important for ivermectin-induced cell death. Finally, ivermectin synergized with conventional chemotherapy agents, ARA-C (cytarabine) and Adriamycin (anthracycline drug also known as Daunorubicin) to increase ROS, reactive oxygen species production. (62)
I want to give thanks to Sonia one more time, for bringing my attention to this amazing medication. I feel really good about this.
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Dear Frisky, Yndorian, wow... Frisky, I think next week your oncologist will "fall off his/her shoes" when you'll ask him this question - I already see his/her face:> So, as I understand, we can buy ivermectin only for animals and it is a one-time dose. What dose should be taken, is it realy 200 ug/kg once, or three times a year, or three times in one month?
Ivermectin is exceptionally potent, with effective dosages
levels that are unusually low. In the treatment of onchocerciasis,
the optimal dose of ivermectin is 150 µg/kg, but the
frequency of administration is still controversial, ranging from
150 µg/kg once to three times yearly. The optimal duration of
treatment has not been established (6).It is effective in most patients with scabies after a single oral dose of 200 µg/kg, but often the regimen involves two or three repeated doses, separated by interval of 1 or 2 weeks (7).
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Okay Saulius....found this info regarding dosage...
Safety and Dosage of Ivermectin
About 200 million are currently taking Ivermectin as treatment/prevention of river blindness. According to Dr. Crump, Ivermectin is "astonishingly safe for human use." He says "Indeed, it is such a safe drug, with minimal side effects, that it can be administered by non-medical staff and even illiterate individuals in remote rural communities,"
Dr Guzzo reports in 2002, no indication of associated CNS toxicity for Ivermectin doses up to 10 times the highest FDA-approved dose of 200 microg/kg.(120 mg single dose is 10 times the 12 mg recommended dose). There was better absorption with higher plasma levels when the drug is taken with food.
Ivermectin dosage for treatment of head lice (pediculosis) is Two Tablets, each one given a week apart, tablet size is 200 mcg/kg (12 mg tablet for a 60kg male).(137) As much as 11 single dosages of 150 mcg/kg may be safely repeated every three months, however higher dosing (800 mcg/kg) every three months was associated with opthalmological complaints. (138)
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So you would say ~200 ug/kg, once every three months,11 times?
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