Ringworm drug for dogs (Fenbendazole) might also cure cancer
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Frisky you and I have the same concern about liver....how is your liver doing on the Xeloda? Do you know what your bilirubin number is and what it was before the Xeloda when you were on Ibrance? Also did that number change at all when you started the fenben? You started fenben 3 days on 4 days off right (I think you mentioned you do it more now, if I am remembering correctly)
Ivermectin is really amazing they use it a lot in horses. I know people take it to kill scabies as well. When I had my itchy bites a year and half ago I thought I had scabies even though 5 dermatologist told me no and took skin samples (turned out to be my body just reacting to the cancer that I didn't know was back) anyway I remember a lot of people buying the horse version and taking it.
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Simone, thank you for the prayers and what an awesome "sign" to get in regards to Little Flower. I think it's ok to pray for people, but very kind of you to ask first. I get prayers sent to me quite often from our customers as I have a little blog on our website about me and going through cancer.
Nicole, progression is all of our worst fears, but unfortunately, pretty inevitable! Unless we get that miracle.
You all are so diligent with your diets and supplements. Me, not so much! I had been having more pain than normal in my left groin, nothing consistant, mostly when moved a certain way or getting up from a squatting postion. I noticed the last few days it has not been has bad. I had up my FZ days for 4 on, instead of 3. Things that make you go hmmmm!
Anxious to hear how everyone scans go and of course still praying for the best.
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Nicole Xeloda failed me, I experienced progression in the liver on Xeloda, but it's been a very good treatment for other women on BCO, so don't let my experience deter you. I would go back to X if I could, it was very easy Tx, just a bunch of pill taking. I don’t remember what the levels were but they went up.
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Frisky, I'm sorry X failed you, it is an east tx for sure. So strange how cancer is, as many gals had liver reduction on X. And others have progression, such as yourself.
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Saulius, I would not take it in that fashion...I would want to take a single dose to protect my liver. But first I'm going to continue on FZ on this massive dose I'm taking prior to the next scan...
After observing the results, I would repeat the ivermectin in 6 months...something like that...maybe consult with a functional doctor of the protocol.
I have no doubts that cancer is some sort of parasite, even a systemic fungal conditions, and that our genius type doctors have been treating the results of the problem NOT the cause. Fckd DNA is what happens after years of the invasion in our bodies. We might look at cancer as a slow-version of the body snatchers, except we don't turn mechanical, no, we're just being eaten alive... I think chemotherapy doesn't help the situation since: A) can't discriminate friends from foes
it destroys our immune system, which is key to survival....C) the majority always loses in the end, after going through hell. But, it’s a very lucrative business and it’s not going to go away soon. 0 -
Yes Goldie, the mysteries of cancer...unpredictability and unreliability....aren’t such results the opposite of something being “scientific “??
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Frisky,
Thanks for all of the info about the ivermectin. I do worry, though, when the writeup say that a particular drug works synergistically with chemotherapeutic agents, because not everyone is being treated that way. (I especially flipped out when I saw the word "adriamycin" show up -- yuck). For example, we don't know how this would interact with Ibrance, which many people are on. If I find anything on that, I'll be happy to post.
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I am not surprised that some drugs work for some people and not others. (To think of a simple example, it's like the way antihistamines make some people sleepy and wire up other people...)
We have ER, PR, HER2 and AR (probably quite a few others that never get tested for...) which have a lot of combinations and varying levels. We have different underlying health, different gut microbiome, different allergies, different genes, different immune systems, different co-occurring conditions, different diet and exercise, different stage of disease, different metastatic sites, etc. We breathe different air and ingest different water supplies.
To my mind cancer is not a parasite, but rather an abnormal set of conditions in our body (inflammation/fermentation) that allow CSCs to thrive and "recruit" our healthy cells and turn them malignant. Anti parasitics may kill CSCs but not for the same reasons they kill a worm; for other, 'sidebar' reasons... (microtubules). Each of the McClelland suggestions has a 'sidebar' effect on some specific way that cancer stem cells eat and self replicate.
I personally looked at the cancer cells as misguided cells of my own body.... and I did a huge amount of visualization of asking them to give up their life to save mine. (If I die, they die, so why not let one of us live?). I do not see the cancer as a foreign invader but a rouge cell of my own which my immune system somehow did not catch and which needed to behave, and not try to take me over and thereby kill me. I thought about my immune system like Pacman eating up the cancer and the cancer cells deciding to give up and 'take one for the team' so I could stay alive.
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Yes...BevJen, there's much to be still understood about this treatment, and it's very important for people to take into consideration their current TX and overall health conditions, maybe talk to their MO about it before acting out.
The way I see it however is this: what if we did have one of the medical conditions it's usually prescribed for? Wouldn't we have to take it? As long as there was no warning against a medication we're on, right? Or physical conditions, such as a compromised liver...
But, when I consider the potential magnificent payback, vs the inevitable failing of ibrance (which uses letrazole to masquerade as a valid TX, and all the other TX that will inevitably fail us) than the decision, for me, becomes very clear.
Even the liver damage....let's see....Doxil, every 3 weeks, (if all goes well) vs a one shot deal that can potentially kill stem cancer cells...again, the choice....FOR ME....is obvious...I'll take the risk!
I'm willing to try just about anything that will, even remotely, free me from the current Purgatory of doctors appointments and pet scan machines and useless poisons being dripped in my veins. I just don't have any reason to think that my doctors and hospital know what they're doing, and I don’t get to chose.
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Santa, the problem is that although we have different types of cancers, the medications indicated for that genetic mutation still don't work consistently...so what we have is guess work...that's all I'm saying...it's what they would call quackery....
Maybe cancer is not a foreign invader, a parasite, but it sure acts and reacts to these medications as if it's one...
You’re approach and visualizations are valid because they are serving you well.
I used to preach positive thinking, and I built a whole career, out of nothing, based on those beliefs...until I was diagnosed....now I continue to visualize and program my mind, but I’m certain my physical body needs help, something to free it from this disease, no matter what it’s origins....
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Dear Frisky, exact mechanisms of this disease are not known, and anyone could be right but I agree with you that medical system and guys working there don't know what they do. Moreover, everyone works alone, on their own, having no real clue what others do. I have a plan how to cure this disease (and similar ones), a plan that I am certain would work, but this plan is not possible since many years ago a huge mistake was made in the Western World - the medicine was handed over to capitalists with no heart (I am 100 % for capitalism but for capitalism with compassion). The search for the cure should be handled centrally by one organization, as a complete project where the result is a cure. Anything that is, as you say "improve our lives by 3 months" is a failure, not a win... I'll try to summarize it all into one small piece next week. I also think you are right in what you do, your assumptions (oh yes, sometimes wise deduction is enough to prove anything without even knowing details) are well weighted, and as you try everything to be healed, we do too. As Joe absolutely by accident found what healed him, you are also on the right path. For me question is always not if but when. Just... do we have enough time to find what will cure us? Ah... Saulius
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Hi there!
Frisky: You have done a wonderful research! ... yesterday when I wrote you I was with my mother, so I didn't have much time, you know. I think that the warnings about this drug has in relation to the liver are related to its anthelmintic action, since people who are very infected with parasites and take it may experience an increase in blood chlorine, and that can damage the liver. Herxheimer reaction. In our case we are using the drug for other purposes. Anyway, excess of chlorine in blood can be neutralized by sodium thiosulphate (fish tank water dechlorinator basically) It is a very safe substance, it is used by doctor in great amounts IV to chelate cianuro poisoning and other blood poisonings.
Snooky, how are you today?
Nicole, Saulius, Husband, Goldie, Frisky., Olma, Simone, Mystic... hugs to all of you
Very complicated day today, scans, rads, blood testing, uf!
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Saulius, we have to keep on trying...when I read success stories, the list of complimentary and off label medications is a long one, and the person doesn't really know what did it. Just like cancer is a complex combination of conditions, so will have to be the cure...everything we take must serve a purpose.... she says as she sips her green tea....
Sonia, thank you for providing info regarding the effect on the liver...I will continue to research in that direction. Meanwhile, try to relax today as you go through all those treatments, and know that you’re loved and supported here, I’m sure your pockets will soon get crowded...but right now I’m the first to take my place in bringing you peace and calm.
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Thanks for asking about me Sonia. I'm doing ok still in a mental fog about possible brain mets.
Question. My MRI was yesterday and it's now Thurs. My next ONC appt is Oct 9. Do you think they would call me today or tomorrow if the results showed "something of interest"? I think it's totally wrong to leave us hanging with these scans. I know by now the scans have been read.
Sorry for not joining in your conversations, it's just this uncertainly about my brain. I can't really concentrate.
HUGS to ALL
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Okay, folks, I know this is the fen ben thread, but we often talk of diet, etc. here. This interesting article just came through my news feed.
https://scienmag.com/dietary-vulnerability-found-i...
Basically, it says that there COULD be certain things that we eat that COULD be feeding cancer cells and we didn't know this for sure before -- note: if you go through the article, you will see that these things include meat, nuts, shellfish, soy, eggs, and a few other things. Apparently researchers at Hopkins have been testing this theory -- although its primary target was NOT breast cancer, they apparently got some funding from the Breast Cancer Research Foundation and Susan G. Komen, and so it looks like they threw breast cancer into the mix just for kicks. Of course, this was all mice testing, but still -- my instinct tells me that this one is important. As I've said before, I was originally diagnosed with breast cancer in 2003, with original metastasis in 2006. After the 2006 diagnosis, I literally swore off meat completely, as well as soy in any form. I'm not a big egg or shellfish eater. I did this for at least 5-6 years. I think it made a difference for me and my cancer. I didn't recur until 2019.
So definitely something to think about -- and by the way, santabarbarian, this seems to coincide with a good number of Dr. Block's recommendations regarding diet?
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thanks sonja hope everything goes smoothly today with great results.
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Yes, BevJen: and also with Dr Longo's recommendations... One thing I am not supposed to eat (specific to TNBC) is asparagus (asparigine). Egg yolk, I know, has choline which should be limited (I think for all BC, not just TNBC).
Surely foods are very important. Where the western diet takes hold, diabetes follows, inflammation follows, and cancer follows.
Besides all the sugar and carbs we eat, there are preservatives and colors in so many things. And those crappy pre-packaged things displace the very veggies and fruits and fish that "cave men" ate. Last our factory farming ways strip a lot of the natural nutrients out of the produce too. So our diets are not what nature intended, and our exercise is not what nature intended.
Frisky, re the long list of supplements, and what "worked"?-- Maybe it's "all of the above," in the COC vein...
Sonia: wishing you the best for your big day and crossing my fingers you get good scans!
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Santa, Bev Jen, I haven't include you in my greeting... I don't ignore you, is just my Dory brain... Nothing I did today has diagnostic value, they are studies for more rads configurations, and usual analytics ... At least today I learned that my uterus can tolerate tamox to start ...
Thank you for your good wishes, I wil keep it in my pockets for the future! ❤
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Frisky, you asked about what 2UM means. M means molarity, which is a measure based on molecular weight per litre. Ivermectin has a molecular weight of 875 grams/mole
2 micromole of ivermectic works out to 1750 micrograms / litre or roughly the same per kg
Here's where the math ends and much higher knowledge is required. What percentage of the drug is absorbed? And where does it accumulate?
I can't speculate on how much a person would need to achieve that concentration in their tissue. If you were simply a barrel of 60 kg of water then you would need to throw in a 105 mg (milligram) tablet to achieve 2 micromole concentration. But its got to be a lot more complicated than that.
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LOL on Dory brain. I'm borrowing that one!
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Snooky they tend to call you immediately if there's something wrong that needs to be discussed with your MO. No news is usually good news...
Sonia, glad to hear all those tests are done and your uterus is okay! XXX OOO
Santa, yes! It’s the combination of everything we do that reverses the condition that created it in the first place
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Husband, would you be so kind as to figure out how much I should be taking based on a my weight of 85 kilograms.
Although your explanation is remarkably clear, my Dory brain leaves me puzzled when it comes to formulas.
I Thank you in advance
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Hi everyone. Sonia good luck today with all your tests going on. Snooky, I'm sure they would call you right away if there was something wrong. I know, waiting is the worst part of testing.
I'll cross post with the ibrance thread later today: I had an appointment with the COC ONC nurse yesterday. I asked about the drug interaction between ibrance and Atorvastatin that was described in the article Bev posted. She said some people do have a genetic mutation which will cause that type of reaction. Ibrance and Atorvastatin do use the same pathway the liver uses to process ibrance . So it can cause metabolism delay.
She was going to send me some additional info, but I haven't received it yet. I wanted to post this as I know several people were worried about this. Bottom line, she said There are a lot of drugs that use the same pathway in the liver and you really need to watch the liver enzymes and adjust drug dosages
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Frisky, I lack the knowledge as to how the drug is absorbed and how much it accumulates in tissue to calculate a human dosage. If you were dosing an 85kg barrel of water, you would need 149 mg (milligrams) of the drug to achieve a 2 um concentration. That calculation is simple because we assume 100% of the drug goes into concentration and is equally distributed among the 85 litres. But a human body has to be a lot more complicated than that. One would have to understand pharmacology intimately to even guess.
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I understand the problem Husband, I guess taking the amount recommended for dealing with the disease it was designed for will be good enough. It's worth trying, as it has been said by couple doctors, that taking a much larger amount is still safe. It's being used by millions of people all over the world, and they are allowed to self-medicate, so it can't be that bad! Definitely not like the chemo that I'm getting where the nurses come in in space suits...she says as she now sips lemonade spiked with resveratrol and quercitin....
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Frisky, for a person of around 80 kg, the single oral dose is 3 tablets of 6mg (6000 ug) obviously that dose is to treat parasites, we should see how effective it is for cancer. It must be taken with an empty stomach
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thanks Sonia, I’m going to study the published studies to confirm your numbers, but if I remember correctly the results were immediate on a very low dose.
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The doses of ivermectin used in mouse xenograft studies are variable [7–9, 26], from 5 to 40 mg/kg. In the present study, the dose of ivermectin was similar to that in Huang et al. [8], which utilized 0.12 mg ivermectin/mouse/day in a breast cancer model. This dose of ivermectin is higher than that commonly used in dogs, but appeared well tolerated in the mice based on lack of body weight loss, elevations in serum hepatic/renal function markers and absence of pathologic changes. Thus, higher doses than the antiparasitic dose used commonly in dogs may be tolerable. Caution should be made when select ivermectin as an anti-tumor drug for canine mammary tumor, since there is no references that show the dose necessary for the treatment of dogs is not toxic. Futher studies are needed to be find the exact concentration of ivermectin which has the anti-tumor effects in dogs without toxicity.
Go to:Conclusion
This study is the first to evaluate the antitumor effect of ivermectin in canine mammary tumor cells in vitro and in xenograft models. Ivermectin's antitumor effects are likely attributed to its ability to regulate cell cycle progression and WNT signaling. These findings support the investigation of ivermectin as a potential anti-cancer agent for canine tumor patients.
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If we use the commonly used conversion of dividing mouse dosage by 12 to get the human dosage, then the mouse studies used the equivalent human dosage of 0.42 to 3.33 mg/kg dosing. That is milligrams. So, for an 85 kg person that would work out to 35.7 to 283 mg dosage. Much higher than used for treating parasites in humans.
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