Ringworm drug for dogs (Fenbendazole) might also cure cancer
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Thank you for posting , Saulius
I have chloroquine already but I have not started taking it and I must confess in these last days I was not taking most of my supplement or COC protocol either. I am on chemo and I run out of steam and I struggle to take all those pills that I put research and effort to acquire in. I promise at least to myself I shall and take st least chloroquine as chemo part of my present treatment is going to stop in a couple of months so I would miss this opportunity if I don't take it now ..
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Saulius, I think you may be right about the cumulative effect. There are other non-drug chemo enhancers -- fasting is one, heat is another., oxygen is a third. Fasting just prior to chemo helps the uptake of the chemo be higher (proved in mice, currently being studied in humans), as it makes healthy cells more quiescent as the body thinks it needs to hunker down w no food coming in, and yet it makes cancer cells more voracious-- right before administering chemo. Fasting also boosts the immune system during re-feed.
I used a ton of supplements, regular high heat/ hyperthermia (simple hot water bottle very hot), fasting, intense exercise, Vitamin C IVs, and chemo, fasting, & hyperbaric oxygen - all together. I am not sure whether any one thing was "the answer" because I think they all helped a little. I could definitely feel the heat soften the tumor, and I could feel the Vitamin C IV 'active' in the tumor area (a fizzy sensation). I also had them split my chemo into two doses, taxotere first thing in am, and carboplatin in afternoon at 4 pm, and kept heat on my breast and axilla during my drips. I did this because there are different times of peak bio availability for various drugs (chronomodulation- Dr Block practices this) and those times came closest for those two drugs.
When diagnosed, I had advanced TNBC w a large multifocal tumor and 3 or 4 axillary nodes affected, including one enormous 3 cm node. My MO recently confessed recently that he did not expect me to get a pCR when he first met me and is certain the complimentary therapies I used helped me to do so. He told me to keep doing all of the supplements etc as he is sure they made a difference.
My question is, will he start recommending any of this to other people? He's the heir apparent to the whole oncology dept in my local center and it would be so cool if he would start offering high dose C at the infusion center, for example. I am working on him!
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Saulius,
This is not exactly what you are talking about (and you obviously know more science than I) but one of the interventional radiology procedures used in the US for organ specific treatment (I'm thinking metastatic BC to the liver, because that's the context I discussed it with a doctor) is trans arterial chemoembolization (also known as TACE). Essentially, if I understand it correctly, the interventional radiologists go to the specific tumors and inject them with chemotherapy drugs directly to "kill them off." There are some other steps to this that I don't recall, but this is being used in the US now. Thought you might be interested.
Bev
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Dear BevJen, thank you, yes, I know TACE but it can be used not in all cases. I'll check once again if we have it here because last time I checked we had not.
Santabarbarian: enhancing is extremely important, you have done the right thing. The fact that you deliver only 0.1 % of traditional chemo to tumors is crazy. Delivering more carries another "unseen" factor - if you can deliver much more to tumor, the amount infused might be less, body gets less = much less side effects. This is why they look into more targeted approaches, like T-DM1 or DS-8201 for Her2+, iNPG-pDox, and so on. I was simply wondering if people who are on chemo benefit more from FenBen or COC or not? That could be a question to Mr. Joe Tippens who is gathering statistics now. Unfortunately straight at the dawn of Facebook I decided not to have it and am nowhere present in mainstream social media, so I cannot post that question there to him...
Saulius
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Anotherone... uh, that is so tempting to try. You could write to the investigators of that clinical trial to ask if it is worth a try. I, for example, have done this once, and got the very sincere answer. Don't care if trial is still ongoing - nobody will be mad for that, and if you get an answer, that is a win. I know we all use a lot of supplements, and COC, and FenBen are demanding protocols, so adding Chloroquine to them might be too much... don't know though... Saulius
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Well this is interesting...I wonder why my IR didn't suggest the TACE for the 1 tumor that was too close to colon/intestine????? That makes me
so now I have to ask about that!!!0 -
Very interesting question Saulius about whether COC or Joe Tippens fendbendazole treatment is a chemo enhancer, and or whether it works best when combined with chemo. I'm afraid we can only speculate. There has always been a school of thought that drug combinations have an added potential for effectiveness for the reason of either synergy, or simply hitting the cancer cell with multiple stresses from which it cannot survive, adapt or evolve. When I studied biology, we did an experiment where we treated bacteria with a low level of antibiotic. As a consequence of the low level, some of the bacteria that had enough natural resistance to the antibiotic survived. Even if it was only a tiny number out of millions. Then, given time, the small number of survivors eventually repopulated the culture, but with antibiotic resistant bacteria. The new, repopulated culture showed a significantly enhanced resistance to the antibiotic. I think something analogous occurs with any form of cancer treatment that is unsuccessful. Just like the low level of antibiotic, perhaps current methods of delivery of existing chemo treatments fail to wipe out the entire population of cancer cells. So far we seem to only have modest improvements in delivery, although I believe there are some targeted chemos under development, where the nanoparticle or similar "units" are surface treated with a substance that causes them to accumulate where a specific antigen is present on the cancer cell. But those targets are not common in typical breast cancer, other than her2+ or some rarer mutations.
I know that some of the anti parasitic drugs do show synergy with conventional chemo drugs, so I think its reasonable to assume that by whatever mechanism, they will likely work better on a patient who is receiving some sort of chemotherapy.
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Nicole,
I think the reason that TACE wasn't brought up is because many docs focus on what's before them. You may recall that my IR wanted to do chemoembolization with me, and I was on board until Dr. Lewandoski from Northwestern recommended microwave ablation for only one of my lesions, on the theory that medical treatment would take care of the rest since they were so small. I had to pitch that to my IR at Hopkins, and then he bought in. Also, I think the docs also focus on what is their research interest or what they consider to be "their thing." So I don't think that what happened with you is surprising at all.
Plus, there's no way, I don't think, that your IR would have done both of those procedures, plus the liver biopsy, at the same time -- it would probably be too much stress on the system.
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Saulius, we also have to remember that CSCs behave differently from tumor cells. And the CSCs are the ones that drive mets.
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saulius , I got it because my complementary therapy doctor recommended it. In addition to everything else. Thank you for the idea , I may contact them if there are electronic ways of communication, thank you for the idea. If no emails available I will just substitute dipiridamole I have been taking for a few weeks for dihydroquinone and if waiting for letters most of my chemo will be done by the time I would receive a response if any. Good idea in principle to write to trial investigators - I am sure on this cancer journey I would benefit at some point from it - it is simple but I would not have thought of it myself ..
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We recently had a visit from a Palliative Care doctor. She was very nice and upbeat. She didn't feel my wife's case was hopeless. Though she'd lost weight, the Dr. felt she wasn't lapsing into cachexia. The Dr. had many of good ideas and related she was treating a number of patients like my wife and said they were all on a "chemo holiday," and many had eventually recovered. Later I got an email from her oncologist all but dropping her from any more treatment. "Best you enjoy the limited time you'll have together," he said. I think I'll go with the Palliative Care doctor.
I just got through adding hand rails to the bathroom. A necessary addition because my wife had almost fallen maneuvering around in the bathroom. Well Joe, looks like your FenBen is all she has now to save her. She's on her 4th weak, sure hope that stuff works. We'll see. So many ladies are taking this along with chemo and, if they are cured what did it, the chemo or FenBen, no one will know for sure.
I'm kind of at a burn out point. Being the constant care giver, the ups and downs, and a possible stark dark lonely future beckoning. I need something to get my mind off this so I'm looking at getting an antique car. A 1955 Thunderbird. I had one when I was young, loved the car but had to sell it when I got orders for Vietnam. I'm even cleaning out a spot in the garage to park it.
MikeW.
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Mike,
Sounds like the palliative care doc is a keeper. Perhaps she can suggest another oncologist to work with as well.
And the car sound exciting! Good luck with all.
Bev
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Mike my heart goes out to you. That ONC is overstepping his position. Definitely get a different one. Being a caretaker is physically and emotionally exhausting. Your wife is lucky to have you. Don't give up. If your wife wants to fight she should be allowed to. A letter to her Onc asking if he thinks he's God is in order.
Getting a car to restore is a fantastic idea. You need to destress. You and your wife are in my prayers.
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Santabarbarian, as much as I understand, CSCs are powerless without the tumor micro environment, i.e. achieved cures in mice did not mean (well, nobody knows) that they did not have CSCs left, it simply meant that they lived same life-span as healthy mice. I'd take that!
Husband and everyone else: do you know on what conventional drugs Joe Tippens was while on chemo/clinical trial (he does not say that in his blog)?
Mike, I can relate a bit to you. I would not say I am a care-giver but as my wife was 33 at diagnosis, 2 year old son (now 4) on my hands, even nearest future in very dark colors, 18 very harsh chemos, mastectomy, radiation, 38 maintenance therapies and countless visits to hospitals (counted 231 today in my diary, as I try my best to go with her), full-time job (I started my own little company just few years before) and a moral burden of every day seeing your loved one suffering, sitting at home while your friends travel, celebrate, "get" more children... I am exhausted too. But on the other hand, I am lucky to have her as my wife, my son is lucky to have her as his mother... she is the bravest person I know and a huge example of human persistence... And doctors who tell you to give up... well, I have no respect for these people. Never listen to them, find another one if you still have power to do this.
Anotherone: write to investigators - usually they answer in a few days...
Saulius
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Mike, my heart hurts for you and your wife. I hate when doctors give that kind of news, they are not GOD, they don't know when someone's time is up. Can you get a new onc? Good luck with the pallitive doctor. Wishing you and your wife all the best.
Saulius, I did not know your wife is so young. That really breaks my heart and so not fair. You, Mike and Husband are wonderful men, husbands and fathers (for those of you that have kids) And I am also sorry, your comment about wathing others travel, have more kids etc. Can you and your wife take a small vacation?
Much love, hugs and prayers to all of you.
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Dear Goldie, yes, it struck us in 2017 when she was 33, and I was 36... It was so sudden, de-novo, already in the liver. We got married in the end of 2012, and in the beginning of 2015 our little angel (son) was born. We always wanted to have 2-3 kids. It is so painful when Vijus asks why he does not get a brother or a sister... Sandra is a wonderful mother. I could not take my eyes off her and my son when they played together. I still cannot. Just now my heart breaks and I almost cry when I look at them. But... as I wrote once, I strongly believe we can do it. And you all can, never forget it. Giving up is not an option for us - you all are too beautiful and interesting, and the world really really needs you!
Saulius
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Mike,
My heart is breaking for you and your wife. Please don't give up. Can you find a different MO?
I have a lot of respect for you, Saulius, husband, and anyone else helping and watching a loved one go through this. It has to be hard for families and loved ones.
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https://draxe.com/nutrition/tap-water-toxicity/?ut...
Tap Water Toxicity: Widespread Contamination Impacting Millions
You can enter you zip code here and see what your tap water contains.Mine contained 15 all cancer causing. I'm not talking about chlorine and fluoride which we all know about. This will wake you up.
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I have a special request. I would like pictures of everyone. I know some of you like to stay private, and I understand that. So if that is the case, maybe one sent in PM. No worries if you don't want to. I like to see whom I am talking with. Frisky has posted one, Sonya has hers as her icon, same with me. I will remove these in a few days, so as to not clog up the thread.
I have always told my family that what hurts me the most, is the pain, worry and sadness that I am causing my family. Not so much right now, as I feel fine, but we all know that day is coming and is already present in a lot of you.
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Nice family Goldie, happy for you!
Snooky, In downtown Manhattan, 8 million people in NYC, apparently our water contain 8 carcinogenic chemicals.
No wonder, they can’t find/ state the causes for cancer, our whole lifestyle is one huge carcinogenic mess....and why they say diet doesn’t matter....of course it wouldn’t, everything is contaminated....
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I'm on a well, but looked at Phoenix AZ, Las Vegas and San Diego, places we visit but always take bottled water. They had like 25 total with 15 extreme. My town had like 8 total, so not horribly bad.
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Frisky, there is also the hygiene hypothesis for increased cancer rates. Several common viruses have been shown to be oncolytic. Bacteria as well stimulate immune responses that are body wide. Intestinal bacterial diversity seems to have an impact on immunity, allergies, autoimmune diseases. The improvements in sanitation reduce our exposure to microbes and may have in fact weakened our immune systems. Might be a factor at play?
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don't be so quick to grab your bottled water....I just watched a documentary...Nestle owns basically all the water companies and ya know where they are getting their Purified water from?? The pumps in Michigan...yup the same Michigan that had all the lead in the water... I want to get that filter that the guys had on Shark Tank you mail them a sample of your water and they test and give you a filter to filter out exactly what needs to be from your water... I want to start drinking from the tap through that in glass...
BTW the nestle purified water is basically tap water..they take everything out with reverse osmosis and then put in their little pack of chemicals to "purify" it...watch the documentary on Netflix...
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Husband, I believe that the constant barrage of carcinogens in the environment weaken our immune system and damage our dna, once those factors are in place fungus, viruses, microbes, and pathogens can attack and weaken us further...this would explain why we respond differently to the same treatments...and why they ultimately fail,
it's too late so to speak, to change the terrain that has taken a lifetime to contaminate, when we basically have to continue to live in the same cancerogenic environment....now add to that all the devastating cancer treatments, that lower our immune system, make us too weak to move and have a normal life, and we end up with the horrendous statistics we currently have...
Nicole, I watched that doc and it was horrific to say the least, because the plastic they use is one of the most estrogenic and dangerous chemical.
I use an industrial size distiller, than the distilled water goes through a carbon filter to remove the chlorine...I then revitalize the water with various minerals before using it...YUP
And obviously keep my water in glass containers that can be cleaned when necessary...I do drink also Pellegrino....Gd only knows what lives in that water...
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We don't use the purified water, we get spring water...so it says. But that's only if we go to any of those places, which isn't very long that you even need to take water with. And when we go camping, we fill gallon water jugs with our water, bottled water for our rides or hikes.
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Goldie, thanks for the initiative! I don't have a photo of three of us in this computer though:/... here we go:
Sandra & Vijus
Saulius & Vijus
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When I buy water I always buy spring...ya know why...because every time I drank "purified water" my interstitial cystitis would bother me....I would have pain in my bladder...now I know it was probably what ever "chemicals" they use to "purify" it....
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Great pics lovely family Goldie
Saulius how happy you look! Your son is soooo adorable and so full of happiness I love that! Your wife is so pretty...if I go on a chemo and loose my hair I wish I could look 1/2 as beautiful as your wife
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Goldie and Saulius - lovely to see you and your beautiful families! Saulius, your son is precious with his gorgeous angelic face
and Goldie you are adorable too! I love your hair!About the spring water - wow. I did actually know that some of the bottled water comes from regular municipal water supply (didn't know Michigan) and it's rather ironic because where I live we have one of the better and purer municipal systems in the USA so yea, I would actually be better off with my own tap water and maybe a Brita filter.
Since diagnosis, I had stopped buying the bottled water in plastic bottles and started buying mineral spring water, which I love anyway, and it is the only thing you can get in glass bottles.
My aim was to reduce my "intake" of food that comes in plastic, plastic utensils, plastic straws. ow I am pretty sure the spring water I drink comes from Italy but I will double check. I think Perrier might be regular water with bubbles added but that's not what I usually buy. In a pinch, I will drink a plastic bottle of poland spring but what I buy for myself is always in glass.
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