I’m so ANGRY
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Thank you for that well articulated response Beesie. And for those of you who have not felt anger, maybe you are more enlightened than the rest of us. But please spare us the comments about maybe it's really underlying fear or sadness etc etc. It may well be so, but those comments just seem condescending (to me anyway). WTF is wrong with being angry.? Nothing. It's as relevant and real as the fear, the helplessness and all the rest. I have never been abused as a child, I have never been ill before mofo cancer. In fact I am blessed in nearly every way and I am fully well aware of how much worse others have it. And if I want to get fucking angry about having breast cancer then I will get fucking angry. And I am not going to the steam room either.
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20 pushups stat.
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Beesie and trinigirl50:
Your responses to edj3 are spot on. Why can't she express her true feelings and have them accepted rather than analyzed for a "fix". She was not asking for that and for others to presume they have it is just so wrong on so many levels. Redirecting her to Steam Room for Anger is also not acknowledging her feelings; the title of this site is "I'm so angry". edj3 don't let others make you leave. I still have moments where anger is triggered by thoughtless comments, RO and MO comments that downplay my real life concerns and the mindless comments like " you are cured", etc. Primal scream therapy works for me and I don't care who hears me.
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"And for those of you who have not felt anger, maybe you are more enlightened than the rest of us."
Nah, I'd say they are more repressed and less in touch with their feelings.
Of course, to be fair, I say that as someone who does get angry and who has learned how to get benefit from that.
. . . 
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I was the one who said it could be fear or sadness underneath, but I was not trying to silence anyone. I apologize if it felt that way. I DO get angry; I am not afraid of anger. I just did not experience being angry over having cancer. I guess when I am angry there's usually a responsible party who F'd something up, who i am angry AT.
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I wasn't trying to silence anyone, either. Sometimes I wonder WHY I haven't gotten angry, or cried, or gone through any of the emotions that I see discussed here and on other threads. I do remember being more freaked out with cancer #1, so maybe the emotional reaction is a one and done, at least for me. Or it could be age; I'm pushing 70 and I kind of expect things to fall apart. Maybe it's having lost relatives and friends to cancers that has somehow numbed me to my own experience(s). Maybe just getting through the surgeries and radiation, and facing some other health issues means I haven't had, or taken, the time to react, and it will all hit me tomorrow or next week or next month or next year or whenever I get #5 and #6 (2028 if I stay on the same schedule). I wasn't minimizing anyone else's reaction. I'm actually a bit jealous of those who can use anger as an outlet.
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santabarbarian - I felt fear and sadness initially, and then I felt anger. If you can't relate, that's OK. But anger is a perfectly reasonable reaction requiring no responsible party.
I confess that I've had to deal with anger issues since I was young. I'm much improved now where outbursts usually are minimal with no audience. I didn't feel that I had been really angry until my active treatment was complete and I had returned to work. It's a bit of a story.
I was at a restaurant where a friend was meeting her ex-boyfriend. He didn't know she had friends watching from a different table. We saw her leave the restaurant upset, and he followed her. Two of us followed them out to the parking lot and waited an aisle over. She was sitting in her car, and he was holding the door open. We couldn't hear them arguing, but then he started raising his voice. That triggered some rage inside me. I ran over and placed myself between them. He had no idea who I was, but I told him to leave. When he wouldn't, I unleashed my rage. I yelled, I swore (I don't swear), and I kept stepping towards him. It occurred to me that he might hurt me, but I was ready to fight dirty. He finally turned back to the restaurant. When we were sure he left, we returned to our table. Our other friend told them what was happening, our waiter offered to help, but was told I had it handled. The waiter gave us a round of shots on the house, and tales of my badassery have been told at work.
Until that night, I didn't know how angry I was. Since I'm not likely to encounter a deserving bastard at will, I just swear more. It hurts my throat less than primal screams. Qigong has been helping as well. Throwing punches is very satisfying. Thinking that probably makes me a bad Qigong practitioner.
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I love this thread keep it going ladies. I haven't felt deep anger, more sadness and loss. Wish I could express it out that way I suspect it is waaayyyy healthier to release all that baggage. Maybe the anger will arise as I progress in my emotional and physical healing I could just be slow getting there.
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So . . . I wasn't leaving the thread in a fit of pique or (dare I say) anger.
Mostly I felt that if someone's on the sunshine bus and thinks anger is inappropriate or a way to hide a different emotion, well I flat don't have the energy or the desire to try to explain any more.
Here's the thing.
No one has made me angry. I'm angry, that's my emotion, I own it. It's mine to deal with, and in my own time. Anger isn't wrong anymore than sadness or happiness are wrong. Emotions just are.
My opinion: women are socialized to squash and deny anger or other unpleasant emotions. And for sure, people are very uncomfortable with anything other than "yes, I'm doing GREAT after surgery, etc."
That's human nature. But to go along with that desire for a positive outcome and outlook is often a lie.
I know I'm not alone in feeling unhappy about this kind of dx, or the side effects or the complications or the long term implications. Those are real feelings, true feelings and ones that also need to be explored.
Add in a big ol whopping dose of PTSD and you'd better believe I'm angry. I did so much work on the effects of sexual abuse in my life, and it's beyond discouraging to be dealing with this again.
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I guess I haven't been big-scale angry much, but I have been frustrated often and deeply. Swearing seems to help relieve the steam there.
But hey, what we feel is what we feel, and it's all okay. The more important thing is how we deal with it. Are we abusing ourselves or others because of it? Or are we finding more constructive ways? I think one of the things I feel most is loss of control, so if that's the catalyst for the anger, finding things that can be controlled might help.
It's a crap disease, that's for sure.
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Embrace your rage and don't compare it to the trials and tribulations of others. This is whats happening to you. Do not, do not minimize what you are feeling. Own it.
One problem is our society frowns upon an enraged woman. We’re supposed to “keep sweet” and deal with difficult things in a “pretty” way. Just slap that pink shit everywhere and you can get happy, society wants us to believe! Sometimes, when you get a breast cancer diagnosis, you begin to question thestatus quo. Gee, are women really supposed to ignore the seriousness of this illness and just make the best of things? Hell to the no. But society likes to keep bc superficial so as not to scare anyone.
I found it cathartic to write down my feelings of anger and rage. I read a book about healing from cancer and it asked very pointed questions surrounding the diagnosis. It was immensely helpful. I wrote and wrote, and never, of course, showed it to anyone. About five years later,I came across the notebook and reread what I'd written and I actually got a good laugh out of it! I was like, “Damn, girl! You was pissed off! You told it like it was!" And I tell you this because after getting my thoughts on paper, over time I was able to work through the anger and find myself in a better place.
I have those questions somewhere. I'll look for them and post them when I find them.
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DivineMrsM I so wish these forums had like buttons because I'd be clicking it like a crazy woman on your post.
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My anger didn't actually come out at any time during my diagnosis or treatment, or reconstruction. Although believe me my personal BC story was not remotely easy, but I imagine very few women sail through it all relatively unscathed.
Two years after my reconstruction (not a success story), my husband ends up in the ICU in an induced coma (long story) with a 50%50 chance of recovery. So while on my way to visiting him, I finally, finally thought "what the motherfucking fuck?" pardon my language. I stopped the car in the parking lot, made sure windows were up and screamed myself blue in the face. The rage came pouring out for all I had endured, for all I had lost, and for being hit with another life blow. Anyway after that, I allowed my anger to surface occasionally, when appropriate, I had another scream before dealing with my asshole BS who messed up my stomach for no good reason and his useless nurse, because I really might have punched one of them. I fired him instead, which was probably better than a punch.
Possibly I might actually benefit from going to the Steam Room. hahaha. But generally I still feel blessed and lucky (why I still feel lucky I have no idea). And I don't believe in God so we can leave that out of my equation.
Life happens to all of us, and someone/somewhere is going to end up with the shit stick. Nothing wrong with being pissed about that.
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Nobody here is "on the sunshine bus," but that's a nice snide outlet for your anger! This illustrates a problem. Non-angry people do not shame others for being angry, but may offer thoughts about shifting the anger, and then angry people may read a judging tone in, and then they shame the non-angry people for being pollyannas. As though only SUPPRESSION could explain non-anger.
I believe our emotions exist to be important guides, and all of them are valid. For me anger is a "I am being F'd with" feeling. Or a "mounting frustration" feeling. During treatment I was bullshit angry about a couple of things. 1. "why the F did I get a Fing horrid uncomfortable port to save 6 needle sticks?" (I misunderstood and thought it would serve for all my other blood draws etc). It got infected and I had it taken out half way .... I recall that presented myself in IR saying "I want this fucking thing out." ). 2. I was enraged when a tumor test I specifically asked them to do (at my own expense) did not happen for 15 days because it got lost in the shuffle, and there I was waiting 'patiently' for the results but FINALLY asked again, and it had not been sent out yet. 3. I lost it totally when I left three messages for my surgeon that did not get returned due to her dim front desk people, when I was just out of my last chemo having to follow up my follow up's follow up about when to schedule my MRI, from a place of extreme exhaustion. I left an email message leaving no room for interpretation about how they needed to have a color coded file-- bright red for people who are too sick to keep making phone calls to find out what the fucking plan is.
I defend anyone's right to be angry and own it. I just know it is caustic emotion to live within 24/7. The OP seemed *upset* to be in a rage state, so I offered fear and sadness as often-present sub emotions that "move" more easily. I know that when I am angry it is a state I feel is deserved in the situation, but it nevertheless feels exhausting and upsetting to go through.
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To Santabarbarian
I fully enjoy my angry self. About time, is what I say. I feel wonderful and powerful thereafter. Also I didnt get the impression that the posters here were in a state of rage 24/7 (kind of impossible I would imagine). OP didnt know what to do with her rage. First thing should be to say its okay to feel rage. Maybe if you had started with that statement, the following about underlying sadness etc might have gone down better. Yes Beesie's comment was lovely and snide and so were you for pointing it out. LOL. There arent Non Angry vs Angry people here. Just people at differerent stages and on different trajectories with different life histories and perspectives. Its all good. Except I personally dont like being preached to. But thats my thing. Rock on ladies.
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BTW a red coded file is a fucking good idea. I will pass that one on to my ex BS.
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"Non-angry people do not shame others for being angry" Yeah, they do all the time.
Lots of people on this site are on the "sunshine bus", and they do try to get the rest of us to jump on board. santabarbarian, that may not have been your intent, but it absolutely is the intent of others. For the most part, as DivineMrsM explained, it is the intent of society with regard to how women are supposed to react to breast cancer.
"The OP seemed *upset* to be in a rage state, so I offered fear and sadness as often-present sub emotions that "move" more easily." Anger, fear, and sadness are three different emotions. They may all be present at the same time - I have a had all 3 together, and believe me, I know which is which. And often these 3 emotions come separately. I most certainly have had fear and sadness without being angry, and I have been angry without have fear or being sad. I think the reaction you are seeing is because rather than "offer thoughts about shifting the anger", the most accepting approach would have been to tell the OP to accept the anger and own it. It appeared that you were trying to provide a fix to the anger expressed by some of the posters, rather than offering understanding and acceptance of the anger.
Anger is a very personal emotion. It's a natural feeling and it's part of who we are. Trying to change one's feelings is like trying to change one's eye color. You can temporarily mask it, but you can never change it. Putting on blue contacts, showing blue eyes to the world and saying your eyes are blue doesn't change the fact that they are brown. And why would you do it? What's wrong with having brown eyes? What's wrong with being angry? Nothing, except for society telling us that women aren't supposed to be angry and that being angry isn't healthy. Yet I think it is much more destructive to our physical and mental well-being to try to suppress or hide or shift our anger. I know how I have learned to use my anger to my benefit, but how I do that is inherent to who I am as an individual. I would never presume to tell anyone else how to use or manager their anger. Accept the anger, own it, and once you do, you'll figure out how to deal with it in a way that works for you. Seems to me that's lot healthier than fighting it or trying to hide it.
Edited to add: By the way, my earlier post was an attempt at humour. I thought that the 4 emojis made that clear, but maybe not.
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Since the first 10-15 posts said "own your anger" I simply thought of offering a different angle. This is a discussion, right?
There's nothing wrong with investigating the presence of other emotions in the cauldron. Many people have trouble discerning which emotion is the main one when there is a mix. Good you are super clear on it Beesie. But that is not universal. Those other emotions (if present) are real ones too. Anyway *I* have found this approach helpful to resolving anger that sticks around past usefulness. I have been surprised at the kernels of grief or fear or powerlessness that can (sometimes) underlie persistent rage.
I did not realize that the only acceptable response to dealing with anger is reveling in it! I stand corrected!
BTW I have been *that* angry -- so angry that I did not WANT to let it go, because I felt so justified and righteous in my rage. I do know that level of rage. Personally, I don't enjoy it.
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I don't think anyone suggested 'revelling' in anger was the ONLY acceptable response to anger. Cant say I noticed that in any of the posts. On a personal note, sometimes my anger is certainly justified, but my rage is more primal when I let it come. I don't think righteousness comes into it for me. Rage against the Gods...Rage against the machine.... Rage against the stupidity of mankind, the unfairness of life (and I am not referring to BC). Universal primal rage. It doesn't unhinge me, its not caustic and I am not an angry bitter person. Maybe that's why I can revel in it. For others, it may indeed be more problematic, but I suspect they would know that about themselves already before BC. Maybe BC gave me a reason to allow myself to tap into that. Nah scratch that. I am not allocating anything positive to stupid BC (childish I know, don't care).
I realise I have gone way off topic, but I do enjoy the debate of intelligent women.. and if it actually serves a purpose, so much the better.
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PS The only thing "wrong" with being angry is when it is a self-sustaining, always-simmering rage that never lets the cortisol abate. Constantly-dumping cortisol is poison in the body -- precisely why child abuse is so toxic to adult health. Experiencing a lot of fight/flight in early life can cause cortisol to get stuck in the "On " position.
Anger that spikes and then resolves is 100% normal and has a beneficial/survival purpose.
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Wait, what? There's a sunshine bus here? I prefer to walk, thanks.
Anger that spikes and then resolves is 100% normal and has a beneficial/survival purpose.
So true.
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santabar, I can understand your point of view, because I am one who gets those jumbled feelings and it takes awhile for me to sort out what I'm feeling. I've even said this to dh on occasion when we strongly disagree about something. In order to find solutions to what we may be fighting about, I sometimes need to sift through the emotional stuff to understand what's really happening.
There's a long history in our society of angry women being portrayed as unbalanced. One of the more recent example is Rose McGowan, of the MeToo movement, who publicly accused Harvey Weinstein of sexual assault. There is a memo his lawyer wrote to him stating that they could start an internet campaign against Rose so that any time her name was googled, articles about her becoming increasingly unglued would be the first to appear. (My son is a computer coder, so I know all it takes is the right algorithm to make this happen.) Rose McGowan was pissed and standing up for herself in the midst of daunting opposition. Its sort of a miracle that all Weinstein's sins have come to light, and that the reputation of McGowan was not destroyed by lies. But there are countless angry women who've been smeared this way.
So yes, society still wants us all to be good girls. But I see that as changing. Gradually, yes, but changing nevertheless.
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CANCER SUCKS!
I think we can all agree on that.
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CANCER ACTUALLY SUPER SUCKS. I am so angry and since I can be a total bitch when I am, I am turning to physical outlets that hopefully wont get me arrested. I did have to replace my patio door and my poor laptop took a flier and my phone screen has a crack in it so next on the list. I am taking up axe throwing, hopefully way easier on my house and my belongings. Whatever we are feeling own it. I truly believe it is better to let your anger out rather than suppressing it. I am not yet up to a self defense class but hopefully soon. My daughter went and she got to pound on a 6ft 4 inch cop. Said it helped her a lot. (He was wearing protective gear). She loves me so she is angry too and I let her know that it was ok to feel like that.
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There is no question that cancer sucks, but why being angry on top of that? You shouldn't beat yourself up for being angry, at the same time anger is destructive and a recipe for misery. It consumes you, as you say. When you add anger to an already difficult situation, you just make the situation worse.
Not to say you are not entitled to your anger. By all means, you have the right to bask in anger. But just to answer your question "What do I do with this rage?" I would say, yes, acknowledge it and own it and then get rid of it. Bask in the love and acceptance of those around you. Love is the way
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Hi Santabarbarian -
I was six months unemployed - after 30 years of working non-stop - when cancer dropped in. I was so dumbstruck, surprised and blindsided by the entire no job / surprise! its cancer diagnosis that anger didn't come up. I was simply shell shocked. Focused and trying to get treatment completed FAST so I could get to the other side.
A dear friend told me recently that he didn't know how I made it through cancer diagnosis minus a job.
You know what? I told him that it felt like I was walking on a slim ledge on the side of the mountain covered in ice. Everyday, I was looking down at my shoes. Step by step. I had no grand plan other than getting through. I was thinking deep and hard and was left so wanting of comfort and answers; I was scared shite-less; I was tense and hoping not to drop into a financial abyss paying COBRA. But I don’t recall being angry. I was too engrossed in getting by without cracking. And I had no sunshine spewing from my a** - but I wasn’t mad. I was just busy! Love, Belle xx0 -
Hi Santabarbarian -
I was six months unemployed - after 30 years of working non-stop - when cancer dropped in. I was so dumbstruck, surprised and blindsided by the entire no job / surprise! its cancer diagnosis that anger didn't come up. I was simply shell shocked. Focused and trying to get treatment completed FAST so I could get to the other side.
A dear friend told me recently that he didn't know how I made it through cancer diagnosis minus a job.
You know what? I told him that it felt like I was walking on a slim ledge on the side of the mountain covered in ice. Everyday, I was looking down at my shoes. Step by step. I had no grand plan other than getting through. I was thinking deep and hard and was left so wanting of comfort and answers; I was scared shite-less; I was tense and hoping not to drop into a financial abyss paying COBRA. But I don't recall being angry. I was too engrossed in getting by without cracking. And I had no sunshine spewing from my a** - but I wasn't mad. I was just busy! Love, Belle xx
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I think I finally realized I was just too numb last year to feel anger or much of any other emotion. The same week I had my lumpectomy I found out I had kidney cancer, so the next two months were a round of recovery and tests and doctor visits and a re-excision with more recovery, then a huge surgery, then healing up just enough to get started on radiation in the required time frame. So numbness followed by exhaustion, coping with both by smiling and saying OKAY a lot and not feeling anything.
I've had some anger issues this year (kind of scary ones) that I've blamed on Tamoxifen, but now I wonder - is it just all catching up with me as I hit the anniversaries? I'm not usually one for self-reflection, but now I wonder if it all bothered me more than I've cared to admit?
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I reread the original post and one thing I’m getting, which I mentioned before, is that the OP seems to be comparing her situation, her diagnosis, and where her life is at right now, to others with bc and thinking, “gee, it’s not as bad for me as it is for some others so why am I so angry?”
We don’t have to quantify our struggles to decide if they warrant x amount of anger. We’re not required to compare our difficulties with others before we determine how much anger we’re supposed to feel.
As women, we are allowed to own our feelings. We don’t need to apologize for them. Or minimize them. Or rate our troubles on a scale as if to determine the correct amount of emotion that’s permitted.
And it sounds to me like the OP is trying to minimize what she’s dealing with. She feels her strong emotions are some how wrong because as she states: “I do not have to finance my own care, have no young children, I have support and diagnosis was not the worst.“
We are allowed to see our own situation for what it is to us, and not for how it stacks up to others.
A bc diagnosis sucks and is disruptive no matter what. You’re allowed to be angry because you’re forced to deal with this life changing disease.
I definitely agree with using some kind of physical exercise to help work through the anger. For me, journaling three pages every day was also a good outlet.
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Alice, you may be right, that the emotional side of dealing with bc, and unfortunately, kidney cancer as well, is catching up to you. It seems to me that even with those not prone to self-reflection, as you say you are, will, at some point, grapple with how a cancer diagnosis has affected them. Its understandable your energy went in to treatment, recovery, and healing. Now maybe its time to assess the emotional part.
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