MIDDLE-AGED WOMEN 40-60ish
Comments
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Thanks Momine. I'm carrying 50# extra, >95% ER +, have fatty, enlarged liver, seeing dietician this week and just need to get serious. BC is a wakeup call. Started Tamoxifen last week. Not sure what it dies to cholesterol and all. I just have to try.
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JRyan,
My son just moved to Portland. He loves it. I'm coming Dec 1-5. First time there. Any recommendations on what we can't miss seeing.
(I think I have tamoxifen insomnia. I may try the glass of wine. It's 1:20 am!)0 -
Beckers, I can highly recommend myfitnesspal-dot-com for keeping track of nutrition and exercise.
Also, the diet I adopted during chemo apparently is very efficient at getting you to lose weight. Basically I tried to eat as many veggies as possible, aiming for 8-10 servings a day. To achieve that, it is easiest to eat the veggies raw (they take more room that way). I think you will find that if you eat a large helping of veggies at both lunch and dinner, your appetite for the rest of the food spectrum will fairly quickly get smaller.
Cabbage or bok choy based salad is good and filling, as is tomato salad. I also keep canned artichoke hearts around to add to salads, and you can add a bit of cooked chicken as well if you like. Use olive oil or yogurt as a base for dressing and skip those questionable bottled ones from the market.
The other thing I did was to eliminate all white starch and almost all sweets. This was tricky at first, but once you get used to it, it really is not half bad. I do eat carbs, but things like sweet potato, whole grain bread (not the squishy kind from the supermarket, from a crunchy-granola place), quinoa, lentils etc. This also majorly ups your fiber intake, which is a good thing for all kinds of reasons, including getting rid of excess estrogen. I do eat a sweet once in a while, but save it for when it is really worth it, like my southern girlfriend's homemade lemon-meringue pie or some really good chocolate.
If I make pancakes or other baked things, I make them with oats and buckwheat flour (lower glycemic index than wheat).
You should be able to improve your QOL by a huge amount if you can get your weight down some.
Are you able to exercise at all?
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Thanks so much, Momine, for that handy link to the list of foods. I haven't looked through it yet, but bookmarked it because questions always come up. Is the list updated periodically, do you know?
I have read that Tamox. can have a slight lowering effect on cholesterol, but it can elevate the triglycerides. My trigl. numbers have been up about 20 points (tho' still in normal range) for about the last 3 years. Is it the Tamox., or did my natural menopause do it, or both? No way to separate the two.
The alcohol guidelines seem to fluctuate every now and then. The last pronouncement came out a couple years ago and was a hot topic at that time. BCO say the following:
I know a lot of women like their dinner wine (or their jello shots for that matter) so, once again, each individual has to come to their own decision if they want to be limited by the guidelines. I don't have a taste for alcohol, so for me this one is a breeze. I am sure that a lot of you are just like me in wondering whether if there are (let's suppose) 10 factors that you can do to lower risk and you follow eight of them to the letter, but cheat a bit on two of them, do you wind up with the eliminated eight protecting you, or do the naughty two cancel the others out? THAT is the part of the equation that no one has figured out yet.
I really think we ALL are willing to make some changes in total lifestyle. I also think there is probably NOT A ONE of us that is doing EVERYTHING single thing possible to lower risk. Yes, my fellow humans, I am saying I bet we all cheat (*) a little. So, the question becomes are we DOING ENOUGH??? No one knows the answer. Considering all that, I say try to make a conscious effort to lower your risk, but don't go guilt trippin' if you are not perfect.
(*) Like if you did up Oktoberfest properly, and drank "just two" of these liter mugs, I'd say a little cheating went on.
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Elimar, I did not mean to imply that 2 drinks a week is totally safe or even a great idea, but all the articles I saw on this, including the one you posted, recommended keeping alcohol to 3 drinks or less a week, IF you are not ready to give it up completely.
I imagine that for everyone, it is a matter of weighing risk, QOL and various other factors. I will do a fair amount, and I have changed my diet and general lifestyle quite a bit, but I also need to feel normal or whatever you want to call it.
As for the list of foods, I don't know if it is updated, nor do I know how seriously one should take it. But I do check it every so often and read what research it has for any given food.
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Hi all, I've been following this group for a while, and I think it's time to join (before I'm too old). You are a fun crowd, and I think I'll love pocket parties. BTW, I'm not giving up alcohol! Being half Italian, drinking wine is part of my cultural heritage. The other half is Mexican, so I like margaritas too!
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I don't drink often, but really wanted one last night. So... :-)
Beckers, Portland is so beautiful. I highly recommend the waterfall loop in the gorge. Dinner at Salty's on the Columbia.
Thanks for the food link Momine. I will be looking into that. These 20 chemo pounds are driving me nuts.
Here's to a great weekend!0 -
Welcome, TAB55! Because of a discussion on another thread I joined in on, I'm curious whether you had the Oncotype done? If so, what was your score and how did YOU arrive at no chemo? Sorry if I am grilling you. Seems like having just a couple nodes involved is the new "gray area."
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Thank you Momine for the list of foods and fitness information!!!!
Thank you too JRyan for Portland info. My son is thriving there....he just loves it. That does a Mom's heart good.
Welcome tab55. This IS a fun place to hang out.
Hope everyone is enjoying the weekend.0 -
Elimar...."jello shots" hey, you never know!
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elimar: Yes, my Oncotype score of 14 got me out of chemo. (And you're not grilling me.) I got the results 4 days before I was supposed to get my port installed. I feel very very lucky. I found radiation to be pretty easy, and so far (4 1/2 weeks) Tamoxifen hasn't given me any SE. I wouldn't mind the SE of weight loss, but I'm still having to fight to get the pounds off. Oh the perks of middle age...
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I also recommend myfitnesspal.com. (free app) I use it on my mobile, easy to use while out and about. If I have a moment somewhere, I can update my diary, look up foods, etc. Keeps track of your weight, exercise, water as well as calories. You can set your goal & work from that. Very easy to use.
I feel like I should be on E-LAB. Maybe I'll stop over there, been a while. Too "a while". HA!
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Myfitnesspal is a great app. I use that one too. I've managed to lose 7 lbs over the last 2 weeks. I think nerves are playing a bit of a role in it. Not exactly the way i want to lose, but I'll take it.
I have found that my water intake truly directly affects my weight flucuations. If i drink my 8-10 glasses, i lose weight. If i drink less, i gain... weird.0 -
elimar, TAB55's oncotype has proven what I've been saying all along. Slower growing cancers - Grade 1 for TAB - don't respond to chemo!! Chemo only works on fast growing tumours. I read this a while ago when the oncotype was first becoming available and have mentioned ER+ breast cancer as being slower growing too. Isn't it wonderful that TAB was able to avoid chemo that wouldn't even have WORKED on her cancer!!!! THIS is the kind of news we need to focus on. The oncotype testing is now available in Canada for the past bit, in Ontario and BC at least. Don't know of other areas. It's about time!!
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Barbe1958- what about grade 2. That is not slow or fast. I hate the whole in the middle thing like some others with their onco scores being in the middle and not knowing what choice to make. I had a score of 6 but 17 positive nodes. I could very well be doing this whole chemo shit for nothing.
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Barbe: I agree with you! The thing I like most about the Oncotype score is that it's looking at MY tumor. It doesn't really matter what the averages are (Only 1 of 8 women get BC, so we're living proof that the odds don't mean squat!), all that matters is YOUR cancer. How fast it's growing, what it reacts to, and what it doesn't. Everyday I think how lucky I am that I had that test. My MO didn't mention it, and when I brought it up, he said, "That's for node negative women." I told him that I had read research about women like me (ER+, Her2-, post menopausal) being good candidates for the test. He agreed, since I was grade 1, but what about other women like me who don't do the research, or don't mind being pushy? (I'm excellent at being pushy!) I would still be in chemo right now, and have radiation in front of me. Instead, my radiaition is behind me and I'm taking a Tamoxifen with my multivitamin each day. No muss, no fuss...
Dianarose: Not that it matters what I think, but I would have gone for chemo too if I had 17 positive nodes. I probably wouldn't have bothered taking the Oncotype test. That's just too many cancer cells trying to get out to wreak havoc. But, you're right. There are no guarantees. We make the best decision we can, and try to enjoy life while we can. It must have been frustrating for you to have such a good Oncotype score with so many positive nodes. Life can be such a bit¢h sometimes.
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Tab55-The onco test was done after my lumpectomy with 4 positive nodes. My mastectomy 3 weeks later revealed the other 13 nodes and other fun stuff. The MO was upfront and said I could very well be doing chemo for nothing, but I have gone through 5 rounds and the end is in sight, 15 days, not like I am counting down or anything. I am glad it shut down my ovaries though.
I don't think I totally understand the whole estrogen thing though. Is it the cause of the cancer to begin with or is it what keeps it going once it starts. I have asked the MO and he talks in circles and you know no more when he is done.
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Dianarose: That is a bummer for you! My understanding is that estrogen feeds our cancer, but doesn't cause it. But, what do I know? I'm glad you'll be done with chemo in a couple of weeks! We'll have to celebrate.
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Dianarose, HER2+ cancer grows quickly, ER+ cancer is known to be slower (with grade considered). BUT, you had 17 positive nodes. I'm surprised they even did an oncotype on you! The test is for the very gray areas and I would do chemo if I were you. 17 positive nodes isn't a gray area! But I have to ask, why DID they do the test and if you came back as a 6, why ARE you doing chemo? (though I would push for it)
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Relating to being Grade 2: To me, with my Grade 2 being in the middle of the "aggression" scale, I was happy to take the OncoDx, but the joke in that was that I fell into intermediate range there too. Score 18. However, in my pathology, my grade was broken down into it's three components and I knew that the rate of growth (mitotic rate) had received the lowest score possible, a 1. Knowing that helped me to pass on the chemo. I figured my B/C didn't grow quick enough to take on major damage from chemo. (Barbe, mine could not grow any slower, but my OncoDx score was not Low. I think it does follow the pattern you suggest BUT then a crazy exception pops up. Ask Eph. When those rare cases come back unusually high, I have often wondered if it might be an error, but it may just be the randomness of B/C once again. I don't know of anyone who re-tested after a "surprise" high number, but maybe they should have been.)
D-rose, Don't forget, you had more than one cancer going on simultaneously so, of course, the nodes on one side could have had cells from one tumor (OncoDx score 6) and the other untested side could have been more aggressive, could have been Grade 3. It probably was considering how many nodes it got into. I'm guessing at that.
As far as Grade 2...way, way back when I joined BCO, a member wrote to me that although it had its own grade, it really came down to Grade 2 (behaves like Grade 1) OR Grade 2 (behaves like Grade 3) as far as aggressiveness is concerned. I think OncoDx helps split that hair.
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Hi everyone - I haven't posted in a while, but interested in the oncotype - dx and chemo. My surgeon did another type of the same test, and my rate for recurrence came back as low. However, because the cancer spread into one node and broke through the node, chemo per my oncologist was at that point inevitable. Hopefully not going through the pain of chemo for nothing....have round three of AC tomorrow.
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butterfly, I think we've said a couple of times that as soon as a node is affected that chemo is pretty much a given. I'd certainly have pushed for it no matter what my oncotype was! We are under the impression that they don't even test women with nodes involved, so I'm surprised a number of you got the oncotype though you had node involvement!
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Is it strange to be node negative with a onco type 32?
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Yep!!! And that is why they had to invent the oncotype test!!!! Is that what you had as a score? You and your team must have been surprised! ER+, HER2-, no nodal involved and a score of 32! Wowza!!! See, before it was just guessing, now the test is helping women like you that would have been denied chemo. Way to go!
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Yes. I haven't seen my MO yet, I see him Thursday. Curious about the course of treatment. Nervous too. I am 40. With two very busy kids and a single parent. Headed back to work after having bmx three weeks ago.
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My Mamm Results:
Negative/Benign Findings
Good Lord, such stress......
Hugs to everyone from one less stressed-out gal!
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Dakota212, Your info. seems to imply that your B/C was found early...and (with OncoDx score of 32) it's a good thing it did not go unnoticed for very long. What I mean is, even the most aggressive grade cancers start out as Stage I, they just "outgrow" that stage quicker than the lower grades. So, they caught yours before it got to the nodes. I call that lucky!!!
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Valjean: Congrats on the results of your mammogram! Time to celebrate.
Barbe: You can still skip chemo even if you have a few positive nodes (like me). You just have to be Er+, Her2- and post menopausal. You can read about it here. Of course, time will tell if that was the right decision for me...
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Elimar- I had a ton of ILC and DCIS and LCIS. I also had a small IDC. My boob was very busy. I just hope the chemo killed any thing that was left over. All doc's involved were shocked that my onco score was only a 6, but do we know how much tissue is actually used for the test. I don't know if both the ILC and IDC were tested. It doesn't state that. I will have to go back and see what the mitotic rate was. I am sure when I read it when I was stressed to the max I wasn't sure what everything meant. All said and done, I am just looking forward now and I have an infusion tomorrow and one next week and finish the Cytoxin pills on the 5th of Nov. Done with that crap and moving on to rads. On a positive note the side that had cancer and rads 8 yrs ago had no cancer. So I guess the radiation worked.
Barbe1958- I have read that they will do an onco test if you have just a few nodes involved. I had 4 at the time they did the test and I was hoping that it would really help me make my chemo decision, but it just made it worse. We didn't know about the other 13 nodes until they did the BMX 3 weeks later. A score of 6 and 17 nodes. I didn't know what to do at the time. I chose the CMF chemo because of the low score and didn't want to have all the harsher side effects from the other chemo. Not to say that CMF doesn't have it's own sucky side effects, but I have been able to go to work everyday.
My daughter and grand babies went back to NC last night. It was so hard. My daughter and I just hugged and cried. It's been an emotional day. We had my dad's burial service today. As my daughter would say, "mom, you are just a hot mess". Miss her already.
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Dianarose: {{{{Hugs}}}} from me to you. I hope happy memories of your time with your daughter and her babies give you comfort.
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