Great saying about depression
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MissBianca: Well, hopefully my posts will make someone else be more aware that words can be hurtfull and that there isn't alot of choice when it comes to BC, just the aftermath of our lives and our struggle to move on which isn't always an easy journey.
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You're right. We are all in this together. Albert Einstein said, "Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow". May what we learn help us with living more fully today.
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I think its really easy to take things the wrong way when reading them online. I have seen it on other threads where there is this flare up of hurt feelings where one or more people take something the wrong way and then the person who said whatever it was feels like they have to defend themselves. It always puzzles me- usually cause I didn't see negativity in whatever the comment was. But I really want this thread to stay a safe place where we can talk about how depression affects us. Kate said it really well.
I don't think women who had a masectomy have a monopoly on depression. Losing a breast can be one of those things we are dealing with in the aftermath but its sure not the only thing. I had the option to have a lumpectomy but chose a mast bc of tumor location near the nipple.Yes I miss my breast, it was very important to my sex life and that is one of the things in the list of bc aftermath.
I am feeling less stuck lately- I've seen a therpist a few times, I have a temp job in a few weeks for a few weeks of work that could turn into a good full time job. It jus seems like after bc- getting "better" is such a long slow slog. Patience is not my strong point!
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Even after BC treatment is over, issues continue. Things have just changed. New normal isn't as simple as it sounds.
MBJ, I'm sorry those women were so unkind. There's no excuse.
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Someone said this thread is not so much about cancer, but to me it is. Those were very, very tough words to read. My surgeon was so upset he couldn't even tell me. He shook his head and walked over to me and held out the pathology report and pointed out the bottom line. Papillary Carcinoma. I can see it in my head as if I'm looking at it now. No one deserves to hear (or read) that they have cancer. It was truly life-altering.
But, as they say, it's not what happens to you in life that makes you, it's how you deal with it. I think those of us here are doing pretty friggin' good!!! We have enough sense to reach out and talk. Works for me....I hope it works for you too.
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It's interesting how different people can read the same thread and get completely different things out of it. I have never felt anything but wonderful support from everyone here and I certainly don't get a sense of a "pecking order" at all. I think Alyad is right when she says it's easy to take things the wrong way when reading them online. Sometimes, without having read the entire thread, it's like coming in the middle of a conversation and misinterpreting what is being said. I only post on threads where I feel it is helping me in some way or I am helping other people. If I don't find that I move on.
MBJ- Feel free to vent! That's why we're here and I think you had a real reason to- those women were horrible to treat you that way. I've "known" you for awhile now, you are wonderful and kind and don't deserve that!
Alyad- Good luck with the job! I hope it works out for you. I'm in the midst of job hunting, too, and it does seem particularly challenging now after everything. I do think if I was working it might help me to not focus on BC 24/7.
barbe- Works for me, too!
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Kate: Thank you so much--the last thing I need is to not feel safe here, which I really do! I completely agree with you about it being easy to take things the wrong way on line. sometimes I forget that it's not just us but that other people come on here and read and you are correct: it's like walking into the middle of a conversation!
Alyad: Well said! Good luck and I hope this job works out for you! I haven't seriously even started looking yet even though I know I should. Not sure what it is I want to be doing with the rest of my life now.
Barbe: I just "knew" and my dr was waiting until the her2 results came in before calling me so I found out on the phone because I couldn't wait any longer and just had to know.
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For those assuming that I jumped into the middle of a conversation and misinterpreted what I read, you are mistaken. I have kept up on these threads daily. The whole conversation about groups/mastectomies/lumpectomies started with Determined on 1/11 at 12:58pm. The post that MBJ posted on 1/12 12:36pm, which she has apologized for and I have accepted, is her rant about the a "lumpectomy gal" going on and on about having cancer in her group and it made her so angry she wanted to punch her. In this post she is angered because this person in self involved and talks about her dating life and talks about having cancer (how dare she). In no part of this post was there mention that MBJ had been offended by this person prior, or a description of that offense. All that was posted after the fact.
I really was over all this yesterday, but since you ladies have called my comprehension skills into question, I have copied and pasted that post. Also, if you follow the original conversation from its beginning on 1/11 starting with Determined, you would be able to see the whole mastectomy angle, which burns me up, by the way, that it is assumed that if a woman has had a lumpectomy, she is all in one piece, her sex life hasn't suffered, she doesn't have body issues, and she really has no business talking about cancer.
Jan 12, 2011 12:36 pm MBJ wrote:
I joined a group of women with BC when I was first diagnosed and going through chemo. All of the women who mad MX's had moved on or gone back to work by the time I had my MX and there was one woman who always showed up late (lumpectomy gal) who then wanted to monopolize the conversation and talk about who she was or wasn't dating. I quit going mostly because of her--she was a very self involved person who used people to get them to do her bidding and I always wanted to punch her because she always went on and on about how hard it was on her having cancer. Just talking about her makes me angry. The group that I do miss was an Art Therapy Group I went to that had women with all types of cancer--I was the only one with an MX. However, it's in the middle of the day on the West side and if I go my whole day is gone and then I am just stuck in traffic coming home so it's impractical and inconvenient to go to groups here. You would think in Los Angeles they would have plenty of support groups but they have none!
Hadley: I used to go to an all women's ACA many, many years ago and it was very helpful at the time but I moved and then never again found a group that I liked.
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Miss Bianca I will say this once and only once. This has been a very supportive group and we have all felt safe here to say what we need to on a particular day. If you read all of my posts I indicated not to say that a woman with a lumpectomy has suffered more or less but that after a mastectomy it is different and it is. I did not have chemo and I know my journey is different than those that do. I believe that there are differences depending on your journey. But I also said each is unique. I have never felt that BC was an easy journey for anyone regardless of type, grade, stage, or treatment.
MBJ you need to feel safe here. I understand how you felt and I know that when you are treated in a way that is so hurtful and unkind it is very hard. I am working still on being ok with people who I thought would be here for me and are not and letting those relationships go. This is the right place to vent and please always feel safe doing so.
This group has always been kind and supportive to me and I thank you for that.
Peace
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Determined, I should clarify that while you got the ball rolling about mastectomies and groups, there have been other responders, (many of which I am sure have been jumping into the middle of THIS conversation without finding its origin), that have stated it is about their lost sex life, body issues, etc, that they contend with a MX, assuming this just isn't the case for lumpectomies.
To rant and feel safe is one thing, to be deeply offensive to the many bc survivors who opted for lumpectomy/radiation is another. MBJ's post, if you bothered to actually read it, does not mention a single word of the offenses she later described of this support group member. She very clearly, in no uncertain terms, expressed anger, actually rage, as she wanted to punch her, because this person went on and on about how hard it was on her having cancer. This spoke volumes to me, about her assumption that to have a lumpectomy, you do not have the right to express how hard it was on yourself having cancer. I would have had a different response if MBJ had ranted about this group member that had treated her smugly and insulted her, but that clearly was what MBJ was NOT ranting about.
I like to feel safe, too, that I can freely express that what a BCO member wrote was highly offensive to me, as well as, I am sure, many of the silent readers who have had lumpectomy/radiation who frequent these posts.
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Huh, I didn't read it that way. I read it as "lumpectomy gal" going on about HER social life and HER issues and HER cancer without giving back to the group. I didn't see it as belittling lumpectomies.
I had 3 lumpectomies in the years before one finally diagnosed cancer. Besides the scarring, no matter how much was taken out it all seemed to fill back in over the years. Losing my breasts WAS different. I think it's the CANCER word that puts us all in the same boat, not what our treatment was.
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If you are small breasted, a lumpectomy has more of an impact on your appearance, symmetry and breast shape, and areola shape and size if tumor was near. Just like MX, lumpectomies have different outcomes for the individual, so there are a lot of assumptions here. Nerves are cut, radiation shrinks the breast smaller and makes the flesh hard, and scar tissue is always retracting and limits range of motion. Node removal is the same, and causes the same problems of nerve pain, and lymphedema. Standard of care for lumpectomy is also radiation, which I still have permanently darkened skin from being deeply burned, and even a permanent 6 inch diameter permanent brown skin on my back from where the rads exited from boosts.
I've been through hell, chemo, lupron/ai's causing instant menopause and se's so severe I couldn't maintain the tx. I also lost 7 months time because I found the lump myself, got a mammogram and a letter saying, all good, see you next year. A growing dimple saved my life, as I realized everything is not okay, but I suffered with neoadjuvant txs to qualify me for lumpuctomy (9 mo. tx) so don't assume lumpectomies are a cakewalk. This cancer has severely impacted my energy level, I have many lingering se's, and my marriage has been severely impacted.
As far as interpretation of posts, to each his own. I don't think the writing here on these threads is so cryptic that you need a linguist to interpret their meaning.
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I think the hard part here, is that reading something is not the same as hearing it due to lack of body language etc.....we are all entitled to our feelings....no right or wrong.....What I love best about bco over an in person/live support group is that if I don't like what someone has written, I don't have to read it....just skip over it.....BC is a hard journey no matter what...and I know sometimes I feel woe is me...that it couldn't be as hard for someone lesser stage or lesser Tx...but I would never, ever tell someone what they are feeling is wrong....and I would never tell someone that what they endured was easier than what I did....body image is personal...and is impacted by so many things........our emotions and our personalities all impac how we interpret what we read.....and what we hear....RESPECT, RESPECT, RESPECT...and lets agree to disagree....HUGS to all and keep posting away
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Thank you, Karen. God bless the peace keepers. The down side to reading is that if you read something hurtful, dang it, you already read it. Then you have to weigh if you really want to say how it made you feel, or just sit there with the emotions it caused and not express them. Hugs
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MissBianca- If this thread upsets you so much maybe you shouldn't read it. I don't mean to be unkind but I don't think you are getting much out of this thread and I feel your postings have completely changed the direction it was going and are a distraction. Just like every support group is not a good fit for everyone so is every thread on BCO. Maybe there is another that would work better for you? You seem to be the only one who took what MBJ and Determined wrong. Most of us understood the spirit in which it was intended and know what wonderful women they are. Those of us who have been posting on here regularly are all struggling emotionally and don't need a fellow member telling us we're wrong in what we are feeling or judging us.
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No, Kate, actually, I have been watching this thread and I watch its count, and there are MANY more people that read them than post them, and some people just don't like to get involved with debates. I am free to read what I like, post what I want to, where I want, and respond to posts that have affected me emotionally. Sorry that you cannot accept or respect that.
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BTW, Kate, I did not misinterpret what Determined had to say about mastectomy groups, or her intent. But being a person that is struggling with depression and PTSD, when I seek out a thread called "Great saying about depression" under Depression/Anxiety/PTSD, I don't expect that I should read the long dialogue that followed essentially dismissing the lumpectomy experience. I certainly would not expect a rant about a "lumpectomy gal" that talks too much in a group about her cancer. Sorry, but I just am missing the kind intent, or wonderful spirit in that.
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Wow Bianca! Any woman's journey of having cancer is painful and debilitating and just because you interpreted my post as a personal insult it is obvous this was never my intent. Your intent seems to be to only upset those of us here who are trying to get on with their lives. You seem to only want to start a fight. Notice you are the only one who is judging and attacking here--I disliked the woman because she was selfish and thought her dating was more important then the group who was all undergoing chemo, losing their breasts, going through radiation and dating wasn't on anyone else's mind and this is a person who isn't nice--maybe you are just projecting because you are being selfish and not nice here, too. Please go find another place to express your anger--this is a place for grieving not anger.
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MBJ,
I was done with all this yesterday. But some posters want to shut me up and dismiss my reactions, which I have every right to feel .But how can anyone claim that the meaning of these words are anything more than what they clearly state:
As you write of the "lumpectomy gal":
"I quit going mostly because of her--she was a very self involved person who used people to get them to do her bidding and I always wanted to punch her because she always went on and on about how hard it was on her having cancer. "
Note: you did not write you wanted to punch her for talking about dating, or that she insulted you previously, etc. It is so very clearly stated.
I have every right, just as the rest of you, to post. The dynamics here are simply that I'm a new kid of the block, and you want to go back to saying whatever pops in your head, regardless of how it offensive it is, or how adversely it will affect others. There is social responsibility that goes with posting on a public forum.
I am merely defending my stance, that I was done with yesterday, but seems to be a popular topic to rehash and perpetuate. I will be done with it when all of you are done with it, not sooner.
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Bianca: Again, let it go and move on! You did take it out of context and maybe I am not the most eloquent person on these boards, especially when I am being emotional about something but you are being mean, whollier then though and very condescending and how do you think THIS appears to those who are trying to get help with depression when you keep adding fuel to the fire. GO FIND ANOTHER THREAD FOR YOUR ANGER!
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Anger is not my issue, although I am capable of feeling it. Depression and PTSD are my current issues. I don't have rage, the kind you have expressed, that I want to inflict bodily harm upon others, or punch them for talking too much about their cancer. It hasn't been you, except for a post this morning that put my reading comprehension skills into question, that has perpetuated this today. It has been other posters that have jumped into the middle of this after I thought we had settled this yesterday between ourselves.
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ignored!
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Thanks for the explicit instructions on how to block you. It's too bad you cannot take responsibility for your own raging hostility.
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MBJ- Just to let you know... I did not take any offense in what you wrote. I understood what you meant. This is starting to become a soap opera.
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Veggy I hope you didn't take offense to mine either. I am not quite sure at all if you look at my words how they can be misread. I indicated quite clearly that I was not saying anything but that the mastectomy journey was different and it is. That does not mean anyone's is less difficult. No one but MissBianca seems to be having difficulty with this. This thread was truly very peaceful until she got involved.
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Yeah, no kidding! Just listen to that little mouse go on! She can sure talk up a storm when she wants. She kind of does that when you try to quash her.
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I truly hope we can get back to peaceful discussions. I have also blocked her so that I can discuss with caring women who have been a great support.
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I don't have a problem with anyone's comments. I don't take offense to anyone blowing off steam. I do it sometimes too. No matter where we are with cancer, it all affects us. I have never seen any name calling or belittling on this thread. I feel safe here. I may not comment as much as others, but when I do I feel safe. MissB came and I am shocked. I shook my head as I read her comments. That's all I'll say about her. I don't want to offend her either.
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Yes, Determined, I already said all of that. It was after your starter post that other posters chimed in. There is always the risk of upheaval when you stand up for yourself. That's what promotes awareness.
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