CONSTIPATION--problem with so many of our drugs
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bump for a better go!
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hahaha!!! Seriously, lots of good info here.
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Hello, I'm new to this forum and hopefully will see a response. I am experiencing rectal bleeding. I am currently on my 5th week of Taxotere every Tuesday. Last Wednesday night, I had quite a successful BM, well formed but quite explosive. After the BM, I had some severe rectal pain as if something large was pressing on the rectum. I also had bleeding for 3-4 days requiring a pad in panties. After the pain went away, I have had bright red blood passing with the stools. I am concerned of colon mets because of the breast cancer. I saw my onco today with my 5th treatment of tax. She wants me to have a colonoscopy after the chemo. After reading all the great tips in this forum, I am a little relieved because it is most likely internal hemorrhoids. I am going to try the baby food prunes first because I am on a daily fiber/stool softener/miralax regimine with fair results.
My original question to you is; with rectal bleeding/possible hemorrhoids, should I take fish oil? I am afraid to take the fish oil because I remember hearing/reading something about the fish oil interfering with blood clotting. Any suggestions?
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BevJean - SAS will be along in awhile & she is our expert. Have you already had surgery or is your chemo neo-adjuvant?
I think I'd want gastroenterologist or colo-rectal doc to look at the problem now rather than waiting - even if you have to wait for colonoscopy. I will say that my docs told me to stop both Fish Oil & Vit E well before surgeries since both can be blood thinners.
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I have had bilat mastectomy (just updated profile
) I don't think a GI would want to touch me right now while undergoing chemo. I feel comfortable waiting. Thank you for responding so quickly! I had 4 treatments of A/C which were really bad!! The Taxol isn't too bad and I've recently returned to work. I will wait on taking the fish oil just as a precaution. I was taking Vit E and have stopped that too. I have quite a story to tell and I will do so in another area of this forum. (suggestion as to where we share our stories?) I haven't really talked to too many others about my cancer/treatments. I am an RN and work in mental health. I'm sure we will reply to each other more. Nice to know others going through the same trials.0 -
MinusTwo and BevJeanAnn.
Thanks for posting the info on fish oil and possible bleeding. Ever so often I wonder why I am still here at BCO since I am not much of a contributor, always seem like my "journey" is/was somewhat easy and uneventful. so I have nothing to share that would be of value to others, but I have benefited and learned so much here the past 6 years. I have this subject in my favorites because Constipation has been a companion of mine for a long time. I recently had a colonoscopy, my 6th or 7th, lost track, and fish oil is on my list of supplements I take (ordered by my PC doc, to help lower cholesterol). The doc. performing the colonoscopy never did mention not to take fish oil, and for the firsts time ever I had excessive bleeding, blood clots, approx. 12 hrs after colonoscopy, Could very well have been caused by the fish oil, I take 2-1000 mg per day, and did take the fish oil that nite.
On the constipation front, I was told to try fiber supplement and Colace, so far so good. Doc. told me to stay away from the Cascara Sagrada and use Mirilax only f I did get constipated again, although it really was a good remedy for me this past year. Only six days out from colonoscopy, and so far so good on the fiber stuff and colace.
I did not have Chemo, but still have neuropathy in both feet, I only lost 4 lymph nodes, yet got truncal and arm LE, maybe another reason I hang around, there are so many wonderful women on here with good advice for us, and I appreciate that so much.
dsgirl
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hi sad here on kindle.Will check in when laptop is fixed
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Sounds like I need to eat yogurt twice a day! 😜0
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Minus two-
With my age and previous hx of colon polyps, I will be able to have colonoscopy as far as insurance coverage is concerned. I haven't seen anymore blood with bm's today, so I am happy. Thanks for the input!
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dsgirl - yes I follow the "Grrrrrr" thread about LE and the "VENT" thread about neuropathy even if I don't post much.
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BevJean - hooray, no blood. Hope it's hemorids & things go easy (pun intended)
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MinusTwo. Hi sweetie , i'm here and feeling no pain
Thank you for thinking of me Went to a wonderful party tonight. Had computer problems all day.Bev.....I'm a retired nurse. I started this thread b/c BCo didn't have a constipation topic. BCO since started a constipation topic on the main board.
Several parts to your question Will try to do some justice tonite--
You don't state that the rectal bleeding preceded chemo. You do state that you have had constipation with chemo. Then you do state " After the BM, I had some severe rectal pain as if something large was pressing on the rectum. I also had bleeding for 3-4 days requiring a pad in panties. After the pain went away, I have had bright red blood passing with the stools. I am concerned of colon mets." " After reading all the great tips in this forum, I am a little relieved because it is most likely internal hemorrhoids" " My original question to you is; with rectal bleeding/possible hemorrhoids, should I take fish oil? I am afraid to take the fish oil because I remember hearing/reading something about the fish oil interfering with blood clotting. Any suggestions?" After a member suggestion of a GI appointment you responded " I don't think a GI would want to touch me right now while undergoing chemo. I feel comfortable waiting."
Bev do you want a real response? Please, I will work on a real response. But what I read here is you aren't looking for one. The hardest thing to do between nurses, is to say you are wrong. You are wrong. I can guide you if you wish.
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Bev, As MT suggested, It is a good move to see the GI guy as soon as possible. That will give them a chance to evaluate all the tests you have had done. They can order whatever else they want before the scope. This approach will prevent delays of getting a test that may want done before the scope. PLUS, the GI guy can tell you what to do if bleeding reoccurs. I think that is the best approach. Docs get bummed when they have to say I wish I would have known.
Docs don't want to touch the colon for minimum 6 weeks after bleeding unless it's an absolute problem like an uncontrolled GI bleed. Would you go with a new GI guy in Grand Rapids? If so, you should check and see what there lead time is for first appointments. Also, ask how long after chemo they like to wait. If the lead time for the first appointment is close to the 6-7th week. Generally, they have the scopes scheduled 2-3 weeks after that evaluation. That would put you in the window to schedule a scope at that time. GI docs have to have seen a patient with in the prior month before a scope. Schedule the appointment to meet those two factors. The scheduling gal may not know about chemo just ask her to get an answer from the doc and you'll call back.
Glad the bleeding stopped. Glad the prunes, fiber, and water are working. There is a stewed prunes and stewed apricots recipe near the beginning.
I have a bias against Miralax because of it's warning to not be used by someone with kidney disease. That tells me it's absorbed. Until someone can define what Polyethylene Glycol--Miralax does once it get's into the circulatory system, I'm against it.
Please, get your path reports from the last scope. And take any CT scans of the abdomen &pelvis reports. Any ultrasound reports too of abdomen or pelvis.
Posting this on the board too.
Good Luck. 0 -
Thank you sas! Going to call my family doc and have the appt made. I know there won't be any problem getting in with a GI doc here. Like I said earlier, I am ok to wait since the bleeding and pain have stopped.
My original question was, with rectal (or any) bleeding, should I take Omega 3 fish oil supplements?
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Bev that's a hard question on Omega3. The easy answer is ask your doc. Omega3 is the cavalry that helps to control and interfere with all the negative prostaglandins produced by the Omega6. Say they're roughly 30 prostaglandins produced with Omega6 as the precursor. Half of them have negative affects.
Omega3 has been processed out of our diets. You could try a diet higher in Omega3 and thus avoid supplements. Flax seed freshly ground is a great source for fiber and Omega3. But flaxseed is very high in Lignan. They're has been mixed reporting on lignans and BC. I switched years ago to fishoil b/c of this.
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But SAS - were my docs correct that it does thin the blood?
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MT every thing is relative. Our body is meant to be in balance. In a previous time before 1900 and the introduction of processed foods. Food was home grown or obtained from the land. Soils weren't depleted of nutrients. Crops were rotated. Then pesticides and food processing were introduced. Over time less and less crop rotation was done. Food was produced but with less nutrient value as the soil was depleted. Crop rotation allowed the soil to for lack of a better description to remain strong. Crop rotation allowed for natural resistance to destroying insects.
The need for Omega 3 was observed back to Pharaoh times in Flax. The earliest finding in an Egyptian tomb was several thousand years ago. Those that ate Flaxseed were healthier than those that didn't. Charlemagne decreed that his subjects eat a serving a day of flaxseed.
In the 70's research was heavy into finding out why Japanese and Inuit had less cancer. The conclusion was diet. A diet that was high in fish that was heavy in good fat. That chemical(bad word , but will do) in the good fat was identified as Omega3.
Omega 3 is a essential fatty acid as are 6 &9. I forget what the ratio should be, but in our processed world 6 is predominate. The balance is disturbed. EFA's must be obtained by diet, as they can't be fabricated/made by the body. Interesting that we didn't develop this ability over time.
I first started reading about Omega3 in 1997, with my first episode of diverticulitus. I wanted to do something to protect the bowel. I came across Omega3. I started taking it. Did great things for the bowel. Over about three months I saw a great difference in my skin. Over time I was faithful and then fell off. I' have had my cancer troubles, but think without the Omega3, I wouldn't be here. My genetics are awful as you know. I think the number is 25:53 with primary cancers. I've faired pretty well, considering those numbers. If my twin and brothers were compared on certain things, it would be interesting. One very visible thing is varicose viens. Nada for me. The three of them are quite variable. But you know me I like studies, I've read on it over time, but haven't revisited the subject in awhile.
What is relative? Thinning of the blood so clots don't form--Good. Thinning so we bleed not good. If you are on Omega3 and are cut you will not hemorrhage. Omega3 helps in the prevention of vessel plaque-Good. Omega3 helps in cholesterol balance, cell wall stability, glucose tolerance. Cancer prevention. All kinds of good things. The ideal is to get it from diet. If we can't get it from diet, then we need make sure we aren't deficient by taking a supplement. The reasonable thing is to not take it before surgery, then resume after surgery at a reasonable point a few days.
There used to be two books I recommended. "Omega3" by Rudin. It's what I called a primer. Written for the layperson. "Fats that Heal, Fats that KIll" by Udo Irasmus" . Irasmus spent about 50 years researching the Essential Fatty Acids. I called his book the Bible of Essential Fatty Acids(EFA's).I f you choose to read his book, it's very important that you read the forward. He explains how to read his book. If you were to bypass the forward, and go to the first chapter, you would so fast close the book. It's all chemistry. The forward explains all. I won't try to replicate it here.
The study of the Essential Fatty Acids likely doesn't get much attention in Medical school, just as nutrition doesn't. It certainly, wasn't mentioned in nursing school in the 70's, but that was a very early time in the understanding of EFA;'s. How much is taught today no clue. BUT the fact that so many docs caution about bleeding is interesting. Also, it's interesting the slow , but steady support for Omega3 as a supplement. When I first studied it in 1997, I predicted that within 5 years(2002), it would be known within the medical community and it's use would start to spread. I predicted that in 10 years(2007) that it would be known by the general public. It happened just that way. Now Omega3 is mentioned in so many things, and included in so many processed foods as an additive.
Everything is relative
When docs say don't take it, It tells me they haven't studied EFA's, otherwise they're would be better instructions.0 -
SAS - thanks for the info. I agree, they probably weren't taught or don't know - just like with LE. Anyway, I'm a believer. I take 2 - 1000 mg softgels per day. And I'm going back to Vit E. I ran out a month ago and have been experimenting. Joints are all getting much more creaky and trigger thumb is worse.
Obviously off target. On the subject at hand, I still need to eat 3 dried prunes every 3 days to stay regular. I guess I could do one a day, but they're not my favorite things so I don't remember. They do work tho.
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MinusTwo
Have you tried prune juice? Prunes are not my favorite either, and I was thinking I'd try the juice instead. I eat 3 a day. Thinking to try the juice when I run out.
So far doing good (fingers and toes crossed) on the chewable fruit fiber supplement and Colace, am now now 9 days past colonoscopy and no Constipation.
Dsgirl
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dsgirl - Yes I've tried the juice and it doesn't work as well for me. Takes a lot more to get the same result. I really don't hate prunes. Just have to find a time of day to eat them that doesn't cause a "cross flavor" problem.
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I tried everything for constipation 7 years ago when on pain meds and my onc nurse suggested several things, none of which worked - Miralax was new at the time and it didn't work for four days!!!
Anyway in desperation this nurse suggested WARM prune juice and it works in three hours - I tried 8 ozs. and it worked like a miracle but the last time I took 8 ozs. it worked too well so I cut it back to 4 ozs. I am currently on Faslodex and constipation is my constant companion so I eat 6 dried prunes a day and eat a high fibre diet - I save the prune juice for the few days after the shots when things are tough. I have taken stool softeners at night before bed on occasion (I take 2) but prefer the juice above all - I buy the unsweetened and add the sweetener myself.0 -
208Sandy, I'm going to try the prune juice. If I eat 6 prunes then I have explosive diarrhea. So I going to try 2 ozs. of the prune juice and see what happens. Will let you guys know.
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Just an FYI--I went to our local farmers market and found some prune plums. They are a God-send. I usually eat 3-4 per day and BM's have been normal. I also take fiber with plenty of fluids. Good luck everyone with this plugged up problem.
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Hello! I'm just popping in to say Thank You for starting this thread. I'm on my second week of a 12-week chemo program. I had the opposite problem,diarrhea, the first week. This week I was constipated for two whole days. Then I bought a mega-probiotic with 30 billion bacteria or something crazy like that! I took it last night and although this morning I had a headache and nausea SE's, I think the probiotic actually worked. Also had a smoothie for breakfast yesterday and included in it a scoop of organic fiber supplement and some ground flax meal. It was a tad bit grainy but didn't taste terrible and I suspect it helped too. Good luck everyone with beating your constipation on the way to beating your cancer!
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Hi Mommy2B, I'm a big believer in Probiotics. Started studying the subject in the days of yon. 1970's. The word probiotics was coined in 1995. I take them almost daily. They are bacterial organisms meant to replenish the bacteria of the gut. Many of the chemicals that we take can alter the bacteria in the gut. Even foods.The science behind this has become very strong The word coined in the last decade or so is the biome or microbiome. The science is identifying specific strains as being more beneficial than others.
I did a thread on weight and as part of the learning process we meandered into the microbiome. I will link it an you can read what interests you. The study of the biome/microbiome will be exploding for the next decade or so.
A few cautionaries. Probiotics in a reduced immune state can be trouble. They are bacteria. In a reduced state they're is a possibility that they become a problem versus a benefit. Avoiding them during the week of chemo and the next week maybe two is a consideration. What we need is some evidenced based research on this. If anyone can locate some EBR it would be appreciated.
Buy from a reputable health food store. Not GNC, Walmart, Walgreens. Target. There was a big expose in the spring of 2015 re: these companies and their supplements. Google "New York Attorney General and fraud and supplements 2015", if interested. Buying on the internet can be a problem too. One b/c you don't know about quality and two the product might be subject to heat extremes that may affect the bacteria.
High quality health food stores work with their suppliers to assure the product is protected when shipped. Some companies products need to be refrigerated and are cold packed shipped. Other companies product do not need refrigeration, but shipping still can be a problem in areas of high heat.
On the weight thread I was just getting into the search on diet that best supported the microbiome of the gut. I hadn't completed the search. Roughly. low fructose foods( there is a link), Mediterranean, and Paleo diet support the little buggers. Again I hadn't finished.
Link to weight thread
https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/73/topic/832722?page=1
beginning discussion on diet is on page 3
Additionally, as a result of studies based on the Hygiene Hypothesis, Foods that are obtained from local sources carry more good bacteria, than foods from distant places. Fruits and vegetables from big commercial sources use irradiation and chemicals to kill bacteria to prolong shelf life.
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Please, don't miss scanning from the beginning. Many have offered suggestions. Prunes and Apricots have been the most often identified products for a better go
Thank you to all the new folks offering suggestions. In the end, it will be helpful for a great output.
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Make sure that it is WARM prune juice - makes all the difference!
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Thanks 208 Sandy, I am wanting to try the juice, and will be sure to warm it, those wrinkled prunes in a way tastes OK to me, but I happen to have a bit of a problem chewing the skin properly,
dsgirl
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DSg, That's why I suggested reading through from the beginning, so many had suggestions and different recipes from members. I did a tally of I think the first 8 pages. You will see it if you roam back. Prunes and apricots were the most used. Many different ways and recipes. I didn't do a tally since that time, I don't think.
Stewing the whole prunes will break down the fiber of the skin. The fiber of the skin is an excellent natural source of fibr. Same with the apricots.
Sandy, I remember when we had hotplates that were in the nourishment rooms on the nursing units before they were outlawed b/c of fire risk. Of course, the primary use was for tea, prune juice, and broths. We did have separate small commercial coffee makers, usually Bunns. Warming foods that were allowed from home was just one extra use of the hotplate. The invention of the microwave made it so much easier. LOL. Think of that memory......life without a microwave. Hmmmmm, I'm old.
Also, reminds me of going to The Henry Ford museum in Detroit( my hometown). shortly before we moved to Florida in 1992. Henry Ford believed in preserving the tools of every day life. DS was 7. I was dismayed that many items I grew up with were on display and I was only 42.
MT we always diverge. That's what's nice about we can do what we want(mostly)
As you can see I just diverged off to HF museum 0 -
Thank you Sassy, I did go back and read some time ago, and found some things that worked for others, one was the Cascara Sagrada that seemed to work for me when I was constipated.
Recently I had a colonoscopy (Aug. 20th) and the doc. nixed the C.S, said prunes, fiber supplement and Colace, and knock on wood, so far so good, regular BMs, but it's only been 11 days. If the warm prune juice does not work as well as the prunes, I will stew them and see if I can chew the skins better. I suppose when plums are available fresh in the store, I could stew them as well.
I am sure this thread has helped many besides me, I am thankful.
Dsgirl
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