CONSTIPATION--problem with so many of our drugs
Comments
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Dsgrl, congratulations
hope the celebration wasn't too much Can't stress enough that simple routine of leaving time to poop can change everything. After a couple of weeks, slowly reduce the amount of senna, keep the same morning routine and see if you can accomplish the same thing without the senna. Suggest reducing the senna over 1-2 weeks. For those that don't drink coffee try tea. For those that don't drink tea or coffee, try warm water and lemon.
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Sassy, Thanks, love the celebration pictures.
Teehee, now have a question, I looked at the fiber supplement and the stool softener bottles, and don't see Senna as an ingredient, what am I missing. Will try to google Senna, and see what I get.
Thanks again
dsgirl
PS: Did find with Mr. google's help it is an ingredient of the stool softener, Colace.
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LOL dsgirl, What stool softner are you using? Basically, whatever stool softner you are using try to wean off of it. May take a couple or more weeks.
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SAS - I understand the difference between Sennacot & Sennacot D. I've been using only Colace if "going" gets too far apart. So maybe I take one once a month or every 75 days. My docs don't seem to think that's a problem. I'd like to hear your opinion.
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MT Hi friend
" So maybe I take one once a month or every 75 days. My docs don't seem to think that's a problem." That's odd. Did they give you any rationale? I did a search on senna aways back. Went back and found the page. There are multiple posts on it.https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/6/topics/781867?page=12
I would describe your usage as rare. You're question isn't something I can even surmise on. After you read page 12, tell me what you think the answer is?
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SAS - It will take me some time to digest Page 12 (pun intended). I understand about pooping in the morning. It's a good thing to do. My Mother (bless her soul) spent YEARS trying to make me adhere to a morning schedule. I never could do it. (more puns). My normal - prior to BC treatment - was once every 3 days. I'm 70 and that's been true for more than 60 of those years. The only time I got 'off' was when I was traveling. Hopefully I'm back on track & if I can manage my usual "normal", I feel good. I generally eat one meal a day & snacks in the evening. Since I'm still monitoring, that means I need to eat a salad every few days. I need to continue w/gin & tonics. I need to drink a small prune juice on day 3. If I do these things, I'm usually OK. Page 12 has great recommendations. More comments later.
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MT I went back and read page 12 too. I was on page 14 when I realized I'd forgotten my mission. I'm reposting one of the abstracts. Then what I think I will do is go through the abstract and wipe out all the extraneous info to try and make it more readable. If you see it posted that way then it worked
J Clin Gastroenterol. 1998 Jun;26(4):283-6.
Alterations in colonic anatomy induced by chronic stimulant laxatives: the cathartic colon revisited.
Joo JS, Ehrenpreis ED, Gonzalez L, Kaye M, Breno S, Wexner SD, Zaitman D, Secrest K.
Author information
Abstract
Cathartic colon is a historic term for the anatomic alteration of the colon secondary to chronic stimulant laxative use. Because some have questioned whether this is a real entity, we investigated changes occurring on barium enema in patients ingesting stimulant laxatives. Our study consisted of two parts. In part 1, a retrospective review of consecutive barium enemas performed on two groups of patients with chronic constipation (group 1, stimulant laxative use [n=29]; group 2, no stimulant laxative use [n=26]) was presented to a radiologist who was blinded to the patient group. A data sheet containing classic descriptions of cathartic colon was completed for each study. Chronic stimulant laxative use was defined as stimulant laxative ingestion more than three times per week for 1 year or longer. To confirm the findings of the retrospective study, 18 consecutive patients who were chronic stimulant laxative users underwent barium enema examination, and data sheets for cathartic colon were completed by another radiologist (part 2). Colonic redundancy (group 1, 34.5%; group 2, 19.2%) and dilatation (group 1, 44.8%; group 2, 23.1%) were frequent radiographic findings in both patient groups and were not significantly different in the two groups. Loss of haustral folds, however, was a common finding in group 1 (27.6%) but was not seen in group 2 (p < 0.005). Loss of haustral markings occurred in 15 (40.5%) of the total stimulant laxative users in the two parts of the study and was seen in the left colon of 6 (40%) patients, in the right colon of 2 (13.3%) patients, in the transverse colon of 5 (33.3%) patients, and in the entire colon of 2 (13.3%) patients. Loss of haustra was seen in patients chronically ingesting bisacodyl, phenolpthalein, senna, and casanthranol. We conclude that long-term stimulant laxative use results in anatomic changes in the colon characterized by loss of haustral folds, a finding that suggests neuronal injury or damage to colonic longitudinal musculature caused by these agents.
PMID:9649012[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9649012
/////////////////////////////// My revision
Cathartic colon is a historic term for the anatomic alteration of the colon secondary to chronic stimulant laxative use. Because some have questioned whether this is a real entity, we investigated changes occurring on barium enema in patients ingesting stimulant laxatives.
Our study consisted of two parts. A data sheet containing classic descriptions of cathartic colon was completed for each study.
Chronic stimulant laxative use was defined as stimulant laxative ingestion more than three times per week for 1 year or longer.
In part 1, a retrospective review of consecutive barium enemas performed on two groups of patients with chronic constipation (group 1, stimulant laxative use [n=29]; group 2, no stimulant laxative use [n=26]) was presented to a radiologist who was blinded to the patient group.
(In part 2)To confirm the findings of the retrospective study, 18 consecutive patients who were chronic stimulant laxative users underwent barium enema examination, and data sheets for cathartic colon were completed by another radiologist.
FINDINGS:
Colonic redundancy (group 1- 34.5%; group 2- 19.2%) and dilatation (group 1- 44.8%; group 2-23.1%) were frequent radiographic findings in both patient groups and were not significantly different in the two groups.
Loss of haustral folds, however, was a common finding in group 1 (27.6%) but was not seen in group 2 (p < 0.005).
Loss of haustral markings occurred in 15 (40.5%) of the total stimulant laxative users in the two parts of the study and was seen in the left colon of 6 (40%) patients, in the right colon of 2 (13.3%) patients, in the transverse colon of 5 (33.3%) patients, and in the entire colon of 2 (13.3%) patients.
Loss of haustra was seen in patients chronically ingesting bisacodyl, phenolpthalein, senna, and casanthranol. We conclude that long-term stimulant laxative use results in anatomic changes in the colon characterized by loss of haustral folds, a finding that suggests neuronal injury or damage to colonic longitudinal musculature caused by these agents.
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MT I've never redone an abstract before, but I find breaking it up into paragraphs and some editing makes it more understandable. Tell me if you get more out of the abstract now?
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" Chronic stimulant laxative use was defined as stimulant laxative ingestion more than three times per week for 1 year or longer." As you can see this statement was lost in the body of the abstract. It is very helpful to us.
Chronic use of stimulant laxatives can lead to a reduction in the folds in the lining of the large colon. Those large folds help to trap stool and then propel it forward to the anus when the colon wall contracts. With out the folds the stool can't be propelled forward to the anus.
The outcome is no pooping
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Sheesh, no wonder studies and abstracts are so hard to read.
1:00am and I'm writing about poop. I gotta get a life.
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SAS - Yup - poop research at 1am is not indicative of exciting extracurricular activities in your life.
I'm still sticking to my once a month Colace solution, since I haven't seen that it's a laxative. Only a stool softener. Unless of course I'm crazy - which could be a valid conclusion.
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MT once a month isn't going to affect anything. I'd say enjoy, but doesn't quite fit.
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Okay.....I've been struggling with constipation since before BC and now with Aromasin , vitamins, calcium, it has gotten much worse. I started eating tons of broccoli, kale, spinach, and cabbage. All it gave me was GAS....lots. Tried it all, Miralax and every laxative known to man. Now, You haven't lived until you wake up at 3 a.m. to a hissing sound in your bedroom and the smell of roses. Peeked out from under the covers and it was DH swinging the bathroom spray all around my fat butt. His only comment "you gotta get a room"! MOTIFYING!!!!!! He's the most patient, gentle and kind man so I know he was pushed to the limit. Read all 26 pages of this forum at 3:30 am. Straight to stores at 9a.m.
Here's the list of suggestions for everyone that does not have time to read the whole forum. Fiber One cereal, prunes softened with warm water and little lemon juice or prune juice with lemon, oatmeal , black strap molasses,chia seeds, magnesium citrate, cascara sagrada, colace, Miralax, fiber well chews, smooth move senna tea, Sennocot. I got them All. Ran into a neighbor at the store and pushed that cart right by her like Jeff Gordan NASCAR racing.
So many great suggestions (thank you, girls) so please read when you can and happy pooping.
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Obxflygirl - Thanks for today's laugh. Although we all know it's not funny. Good luck w/your purchases but I do hope you don't try then all at once. You will be "through" with Thanksgiving dinner before any of us.
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MT........LOL.... I'm starting with the natural foods first. Fiber one , chia seeds, applesauce and prunes. Really want to get off the stool softners and lax. hoping for success.
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OMD ROTFLOL!
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Let me add to your shopping list: Prune juice mixed with apple juice and slightly warmed,,, and a warning,,, a LITTLE prune juice can go a long way. Do try a smaller amount first,,, like 3 oz,,, and then go up a little if needed.
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Glennie19, thanks for the tip! I'm going to try this. I need to be regular. I had loose stool on Tuesday and then nothing till tonight. Hard stool. I don't need to plug this toilet as I'm holidaying in a rented condo!
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Sassy,
I am happy to report that I no longer use the stool softener. Thanks for the tip about trying to get off them, I used it because it and a fiber supplement were recommended by the doc. after my colonoscopy, but apparently I don't need it. Still stew the prune, apricot, golden raisin concoction, and usually eat it when I eat my yogurt, am really getting to enjoy the stew, and eat it daily. I use the fiber supplement once a day unless I missed the morning BM, then I use it twice that day. Unlike MinusTwo, I cannot go just every 3 days, but I eat 3-4 meals a day, plus a snack, trying to add a few pounds as I was down to 109 lbs.
I finally figured out why I so may times lose my favorite topics, I mean to click "back to top" and end up clicking on "remove from my favorite topics" instead.
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DSgirl - hooray. So glad you've found something that works for you. I got down to 106 lbs during treatment so I too needed to eat once I was done. I was happy to gain 30-40 lbs. Unfortunately the rest is creeping back too. I'm vigilant to the point of recording all my "production" so I don't let it go more than 2-3 days w/o adding a couple of prunes. My son ask what I wanted for Christmas. I really couldn't tell him I needed a small calendar to keep track of BMs - LOL.
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I've had wine
Okay my friends, ugh, gonna talk about poop. I've been through hell, as many have here. Talked poop for 26 pages. Our gal Oxflygal summarized the talk of poop. Not that many posts back. She got it right. I laughed so hard, I chocked. Hence the ROTFFLOL. Dsgrl has gotten off the DRUG. The drug is SENNA. Great drug when needed. Has consequences.. The posts in the past clearly define this.
I've had years of problems, did everything recommended here. But I also, had an unusual thing. My poop was different colors. Worried me. I have a long experience with poop with patients. I never saw what I was producing. The poop was different shades. My Gi guy blew me off. Hey, I had close to 40 years of looking at poop. Sumpin wasn't right.
Not a good role model on AI's, I quit them early, Now with what is known in 2015 is my dose perhaps my dose should have be cut by minimum or half.
BUT............ poop wasn't right. .I did make some changes. Probiotics. I did them 3 pills a day all at one time for about a month just recently
The confusing thing on trying to find normal was the Thyroid (cancer). I'm still in the adjustment phase because of removal off the gland. ( 2014). What I've been impressed with is the length of time to readjust to what is consider normal Thyroid levels. Last visit with the Big Wig doc, I heard this "Better to keep her Hyperthyroid than risk a thyroid caner recurrence"
What Was amazing was the adjustment..............and the length of time it took to do it. Then the next blood test said mid range.
my search found that that a higher level of normal can cause mitochhdiria increase within the cell. My doc and I never talked about mitochondria.
Why it's important here is perhaps they're is a connection to pooping regularly. I'm smashed. i.e. smashed. Be back on the next Wabash.
Okay......... could delete this, but I recommend a good Probiotic. More discussion on thyroid.
Bedtime
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SAS - I'll wait for that Cannonball - pun intended - and the continuing saga of thyroid & poop colors.
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MinusTwo, I have a calendar too for just that purpose. Fun (not) to write down size, consistence etc for each "move". Try to abbreviate, I get rid of each month's page as I am not gonna leave a poop calendar for my kids to find when I die. It is alot of work handling this problem that really should NOT be a problem.
LOL, Sassy, I hope no hangover this am for you, I have been on levothyroxine for 23 years, up and down on the TSH lab tests, currently I am ever so slightly hyper, but not enough to make my PCP change the dose yet, just had labs this week, 0.140 uIU/ml. Before diagnosis of breast cancer my numbers all of a sudden jumped to 15+.
I was told by several docs. low thyroid can cause constipation as well. Sorry you had thyroid cancer, double whammy.
dsgirl
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dsgirl
with your prune apricat and golden raisin concotion. Is it just as it sounds. do you just cook all three
of these fruits and then eat them with your plain yogurt.
Thanks Rosieo
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Hi Rosieo
Yes, I just add some water, barely covering all three, let it simmer for several hours, cool and then refrigerate.
I eat it atop of Greek yogurt with honey in it, or even the strawberry honey yogurt, my two favorite yogurts but I am sure it is good with plan yogurt too. which I may try now that I have flavor to add on top.
dsgirl
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SAS - hope you're OK.
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LOL, okay
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Well, I don't think much of Dr. Oz - but passing this along. His column in today's paper was about how coffee keeps 30-40% of the population 'regular'. Supposedly it can be regular coffee or de-caff, but needs to be black & filtered. Here's their "motto" - So the next time you're slow to go, pour yourself a cup of Joe.
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Hi MinusTwo, I agree on the coffee seeming to help, and would hate to face the morning without it, love my 2 cups of morning coffee. However, one time when I had to have fasting blood work done and could not eat or drink before, I was so thirsty before leaving the house, I drank 2 cups of warm water, it was cold, in the 40 degree range outside, therefore the warm water, ( I was told water was ok, and it helps the nurse who pokes you if you are not dehydrated), and it worked just like the coffee does. So maybe just liquids before eating works to get a "move" on. I know you are not in the morning "move" crowd, lol, but works for me.
dsgirl
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