STEAM ROOM FOR ANGER
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Vaccines aren't 100% effective, so people fully vaccinated have become infected. But they are much less likely to experience severe symptoms including death. They are also faster at clearing the virus which slows spread.
If those teens die, I'll blame the people who ignored implementing and following the public health measures to beat the pandemic. Seems to be a lot of people.
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SerenityStat, May I suggest you go back and read some of your posts. You think my saying this group of women has been unsupportive isn't nice? I can say the same.
Be frustrated with those of us who have not been vaccinated. I'm frustrated that there is supposed to be only one narrative to this whole pandemic and it's one way only. We're all frustrated.
I have researched both sides of the aisle. I don't look on one website and think what they say is gospel. I'm willing to listen to both sides. You post something, I watch it.
I don't agree with any discrimination. I was not grown when there was the type of segregation you posted a picture about. I mean, really? I never said there was no other discrimination in the universe.
Here is the difference. I like you whether you're Republican or Democrat. I like you whether you're vaccinated or unvaccinated. I like you whatever race, creed, nationality, sexual orientation yo are. Trust me, there are many who don't think this way.
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KBL,
It’s no secret that the vaccines are not perfect. There was no expectation it would be as we understand this from the flu vaccine for example. This is simply a matter of the greater good. The numbers are quite different but that’s why you need to understand why the numbers matter. They speak to how we’re doing as a country not how individuals are affected. It is also not a blame game but those cold hard figures point to a common source who are undeniably unvaccinated. That doesn’t mean the scenario you outlined can’t happen but reality is that those cases are exceptions. Most of us are quite aware of that and we accept that there is no iron clad guarantee. We are simply doing the best we can to slow this thing down not only for ourselves but for the greater good. As a famous doctor once said, “I can’t explain to you why it’s important to care about other people.” It’s about caring beyond yourself.
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I've written over 4000 posts. I've never written a blanket statement against anyone here. You specifically were writing about the group of us posting on this thread.
What did I lose?
That picture was from an article written in 2014 about rescinding that ordinance. I assume you were alive then? Besides I didn't know that claiming discrimination of the highest order had a built-in time frame.
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In BC unvaccinated individuals are hospitalized at 17 times higher the rate of vaccinated. Most vaccinated people, if they do catch Covid, even the new delta variant, have a more mild course of disease & do not need hospitalization.
Taking up hospital space, bumping surgeries, cancelling heart procedures, clogging up the CT scanners...it's all irresponsible when it's preventable.
BC is soon going to require vaccine passports to enter non essential indoor public spaces & I think that's great.
I still say take the vaccine or elect to seclude yourself from putting members of society at risk, or putting yourself at risk and potentially taking up hospital space. That's your choice.
Typhoid Mary was real ; just like her, covid spreaders should not be allowed go around infecting people.
As an immunocompromised person, even though I'm vaccinated, it's possible that I have little to no immunity as my immune system is not working properly. I signed a DNR/DNI at the outbreak of covid because with my lung met, a severe lung infection would likely be hopeless. I have no problem saying unvaccinated people should stay tf away from me. Take your own risk but don't put others at risk.
And nothing about this is bullying or discrimination. This is public health and safety.
I get it is hard when your opinion is not widely supported in a group. It's tough, but it's not bullying when others express their opinion. Yours if just different. I think we need to not take everything personally.
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I hear you. I do. Please come back and post when the next variant happens, which there will be the next variant, that the vaccines will not cover. Then what? Can anyone here site the rate of survival of COVID without being vaccinated? How about the rate of adverse events and deaths from the vaccine?
The media is hot to post people who regret not being vaccinated and dying. I want them to put stories of people who got it and survived. I don't see those. They are trying to scare the shit out of people and it's working.
I challenge you all to be open-minded and watch the unvaccinated stories on the internet and not just the scare tactic videos.
I just pulled this up at a major hospital in my area.
Please look at it I couldn't get the whole picture. Please tell me if it looks like it's overrun with COVID patients. This is 490 beds.
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I think I need an ivermectin, hydroxychloroqine, oleandrin, bleach cocktail! Just kidding of course 😉 but I think many of us are following the science and the stats that are reported daily. I find it hard to argue with that.
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I have mostly avoided arguments about the vaccine because it’s too frustrating, and luckily almost everyone I am close to is vaccinated. Yesterday though I got into an argument with my brother after his unvaccinated wife spent five days in the hospital and then posted an ode to the O2 monitor she credited with saving her life. I was so angry I could hardly hold it in. And then my brother said to me that it was all “opinions.” These are not opinions. For some people vaccines are literally life and death and I simply cannot wrap my head around anyone who doesn’t understand that. Especially considering the number of people who cannot get vaccinated and who are relying on herd immunity to help protect them. Their lives are in the hands of their fellow man. And this situation has shown us that a disturbingly lastige number of people do not care about their fellow man at all
my blood boils when I think about it too much.
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To say I don’t care says that you know me. Once again, no one knows me or my situation.
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I’m now going to go enjoy my dinner wit my awesome husband and take a much-needed break from this. I’ve had my rant. Bye for now.
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KBL,
Get the vaccine or don’t get it but don’t call it discriminatory if you don’t. You will simply have to understand that most here do not share your opinion. If public institutions and private businesses make rules that prevent the unvaccinated from doing certain things for the greater good then those who are unvaccinated have to live with the consequences of that decision. Science based reality based on what is presently known. Nothing discriminatory about it!
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The vaccines are doing pretty well against current variants. It would be great if we could end the pandemic before more spread around the world. If they do, the mRNA technology is made to be tweaked and quickly ramp up production of the updated vaccine like we've seen. Similar to how flu vaccines need to be updated but faster.
I've seen many stories of unvaccinated people surviving. Those stories don't scare me. It's the aggregated data that gave me pause. I prefer dog and music videos.
When we say hospitals are getting overrun, we don't say all of them. Mine aren't. I want to keep it that way.
Enjoy dinner!
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It is none of my business who is vax'd or not vax'd. But please note recent data from John's Hopkins indicates vaccinated individuals can spread the virus. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/new-data-on-covid-19-transmission-by-vaccinated-individuals Just something to keep in mind as we go about daily life.
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I think that you always need more than one dose of vaccine to work (there may be exceptions) the first one forms the immune memory and the second one boosts the memory. There are some people who will need of third dose of some vaccines, because they personally didn't have a high enough response and are in a high risk situations, (health care personnel and Hep B for example) most of us never get tested about our personal vaccine response since the schedule is meant to capture most people.
I think that the difference here is that the vaccine is a small price to pay to be part of a engaged society and when there is so much evidence that the unvaccinated are forcing the rest of us to not be able to re-join society, children to be safe in school, businesses to thrive etc. It is hard to understand why someone would choose not to vaccinate for themselves or the greater good of society. It is true that many people do things for the greater good of the society because they are penalized or rewarded to do so- others have internal motivations or loved ones they place above themselves.
Knowing that severe Covid infection or death is preventable, free, and easily available with a vaccine that is so much safer than so many things people choose to do is frustrating.
Research has shown that we "normalize" some risks that are statistically quite dangerous (driving a car) and are very afraid of less common and much less risky things like flying. I don't know how much this has to do with fear of the vaccine.
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Listen, I had my rant. I feel so much better for letting how I feel out. I don't care what anyone else thinks about me and what I do. I will take back the word “discrimination," but I won't take the word “segregation" back. I will and always have done me. I just could not sit back and take the constant barrage of people saying unvaccinated are causing this whole problem. Do more research if you want. Look up the guy who created the mRNA technology. Let's see what he's saying. His name is Robert Malone.
I have edited out a statement I put because my information may have been wrong.
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"Please come back and post when the next variant happens, which there will be the next variant, that the vaccines will not cover. Then what?"
Variants don't develop in isolation. They develop on a continuum.
The more cases of the virus, the greater the likelihood that the virus will successfully mutate and new variants will develop. The only way to minimize the impact of future variants is to reduce the number of cases of the current variants. The only way to reduce the number of cases of the current variants is to have most of the population vaccinated and wearing masks.
The Delta variant took hold in the U.S. and Canada because when it landed on our shores, unvaccinated people immediately started to catch it. This is what created the environment in which the Delta variant was able to thrive. Now it is so prevalent that it is breaking through even with those who are vaccinated. This is precisely why those who are vaccinated are so frustrated with those who are not.
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KBL - OMG! While I'm waiting for dinner, thought I'd look at your screenshot. Holy sh*t! 👎🤦🏻♀️😳 In 2 1/2 months, the percentage of COVID inpatient beds went from 5% to 31% while maintaining a level occupancy rate. Either your community got miraculously healthy (oh, Florida, so no) or they're keeping more and more non- COVID patients out. 🤬🤬🤬
Can you update this in a month?
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Okay. So is there proof that a vaccinated person didn't bring the Delta variant? Where is the proof it was unvaccinated? If you have it, I will gladly read it. The reason for the booster is because two shots are not enough to hold back the variant, so you are just as much able to catch it and give it to me.
I think for now I'm going to be done commenting. I have something very exciting I'm doing tonight, and I want to concentrate on that.
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Comirnaty is the Pfizer vaccine. It is the brand name. It is exactly the same thing I've had two shots of. What do you mean you can't get it? It's widely avaiable. It's Pfizer BNT162b2
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I hardly post here. But after I read this back and forth, I couldn't help but wonder how we got here.
I have to agree that this outrage over a minority group of people, who for whatever reason opted out of a preventative medical intervention, is bordering on bullying.
KBL, I'm so sorry you felt bullied. This is certainly something you shouldn't have to endure when you're fighting to stay alive!!!
What happened to our freedom to weigh all options and decide what the best intervention is for us as individuals at the moment? Especially when we're cancer patients. I've battled cancer and lost two friends to cancer both under 45 so I'm especially sensitive to its impact.
The vaccine will prevent death from COVID. But no one has clearly answered the question about its impact on cancer recurrence and morbidity over the long term. They can't. I'm not blaming them. They have to get everyone vaccinated so that we can get out of this misery. There is just so much we don't know about cancer and our immune responses. A study on the varied immune responses of COVID vaccines on cancer patients (I can't post the link because I didn't have suffient posts here, but you can find it if you search for 'covid vaccine' on cancer.gov.) has very interesting findings but it also highlights gaps in what we know!
Clearly there's a need for more research about cancer and our immune responses. It would be more productive, for example, if we collaborated to demand more research in that area.
But no one should be cohersed to make a decision one way about one's health and most importantly no one should ever be labelled a conspiracy theorist when they ask hard questions.
Regardless of your vaccination status, mask! stay away from confined spaces, if possible! And take care of yourselves and each other. Life is too short as it is 🤗🤗!
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Vaccinated people can catch it and can spread it but they are FAR less likely to get infected in the first place.
Breakthrough infections remain rare (& the majority happen in immunocompromised people like us - which is why double vaxed cancer pts still need the unvaxed to stay away from us). Also epidemiologists literally test and trace outbreaks so they can tell who infected whom. They can track genetic signatures of the virus. So when outbreaks occur, they know who brought it...
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I think the root of anti-vax is anger (appropriate for this thread!). I see it similar to the anti-Pharma, anti-chemo, 'chemo is poison' angry crowd. Yes, it sucks that we got cancer and have to do all these drastic treatments of chemo, radiation, surgery, hormone-blocker, etc. It really sucks, but what is a realistic alternative? Some choose to direct their anger at Big Pharma and reject conventional treatment, but IMO, anger is not a useful response, you don't get results. You want to survive? Suck it up, you have one crappy option after another. Same with pandemic, the anger is directed at all directions. I mean, I literally put poison in my body, what is a couple of extra shots of highly tested mRNA vaccine, can't be worse than FEC-D.
And just because I accepted to get the shots doesn't make me a sheep or less apprehensive. I've had my doubts too, but I followed my logic with my cancer treatments and rolled up my sleeve. Who really likes to get chemo or blood pressure med or vaccine??
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Comirnaty is the Pfizer vaccine. It is the brand name. It is exactly the same thing I've had two shots of. What do you mean you can't get it? It's widely avaiable. It's Pfizer BNT162b2
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-re...
I was just about to write the same thing. It is readily available almost everywhere in the US. They even have the generic name ready. I am simply baffled by why anyone thinks it’s not available. It has been available since it received emergency use authorization and continues to be. Admittedly, the brand name is not too catchy and I think many will simply continue to call it the Pfizer vax. Why do you think it’s unavailable0 -
If that's the case, please explain this paragraph.
This was in the link Moth posted, specifically this sentence: An individual may be offered either COMIRNATY®(COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) or the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine to prevent coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by SARS-CoV-2.
What do they mean by “either” if it’s one and the same?
The FDA-approved COMIRNATY® (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) and the EUA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series. An individual may be offered either COMIRNATY®(COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) or the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine to prevent coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by SARS-CoV-2.
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Liben, thank you for posting.
I am all for open discussion. That's why I came and posted. It was so one-sided, I couldn't do it any longer.
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ok, my eyes are terrible, so I maybe I can't see right... but it looks like the last date on the hospital data screenshot was Aug 13? Are we talking about if hospitals are overrun now???
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I feel like Robert Malone is pissed off he’s not getting the credit he deserves. There have been many working on mRNA research over the years. So, when the researchers, scientists, and doctors can’t get along how are we suppose to understand?
@KBL. I’m sorry you don’t feel supported but I’m glad you came back and are putting your posts out there. I understand your questions and I wish I could answer them for you. I can’t. Covid death rate is actually low. I have read the numbers but will admit I suck at math. With the 60/40 split we are at now ( orthere about depending where u are), it maybe another year before we reach herd immunity. Hoping the next variant won’t be as bad. Should we all live that long we can come back in here and say WTF just happened? Stay well.
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blue, it does say August 13, so they are a little behind, but it’s a seven-day total, so it’s one week behind.
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ctmbsikia, thank you. I really do appreciate your words.
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I think it says patients may be offered one or the other because it might be differently labelled. It's like gettting tylenol or acetaminophen. They're still the same thing.
They settled on the name Comirnaty a few months ago btw. That's the brand name. Tozinameran is the generic. The BNT162b2 was the lab name, with the BNT referring to BioNTech.
https://www.fiercepharma.com/marketing/pfizer-bion...
Are people somehow suggesting that what... the FDA is approving a new drug? A different drug than the one that got the EUA? Is this some new reason to dismiss the FDA approval? I don't get this at all
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