Ringworm drug for dogs (Fenbendazole) might also cure cancer
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Dear JFL, BevJen, thanks for asking! We did not need to travel, we get these treatments here in Vilnius in one clinics, not in the clinical trial, it is our own decision. They are not compensated (as other oncology drugs are covered by the state), so we had to pay for them, but they are legal under "advanced cell therapies" law. Many oncologists that we talked to were "against" these immuno-therapies because of one reason - they were not proven in clinical trials in combo with conventional treatments, and that "there were some rumors that progressions happened". Well, progressions in stage IV happen even without DC/CIK, don't they? But on the other hand I have noticed many MOs never really had time or will to learn about DC/CIK (or were in denial), and that is crazily strange because... it is their separate department next door at NCI that recommend and research them:)) Actually when we went for another opinion to another city, chemotherapist said "oh, you do DC/CIK, oh, it is a good decision". Where's the truth? I don't know, somewhere in the middle, but my gut feeling (and now some knowledge) is that it all works in combination. And DC/CIK research states that it works very well in combos with conventional treatments, i.e. chemotherapy, hormonals, monoclonal antibodies, radiation. In the end, I am just a simple soul, like we all are, trying to do everything what I can to save my loved one, my family, my life... I know, most probably we are far from over with this disease, but at least there's some hope. And COC, FenBen... that is hope too. And hope is a big thing in this dark cancer world dear ladies and gentlemen... Saulius
P.S. Sorry, I know this thread is for FenBen protocol. Just wanted to share our story...
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Saulius..wow...***whew*** alot of that just went over my head... I guess people here knew what DC/CIK was I don't know what that even stands for (well I do now thanks to Bev I looked at the trial as well) lol and never heard of it...but it looks like some kind of vaccine that you had your wife take and it helped get her to NED...if so that is wonderful.
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NicoleRod,
My wife's last blood work showed:
bilirubin total 8
ALK 60
AST 27
ALT 24
GGT 20
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Saulius: Have you heard about autohemotherapy? Apparently it achieves excellent results raising the immune system. I think it may interest you because it works like a self-vaccination. I know that the idea of more punctures is not very pleasant, but if your wife has a port, it is easier.
It consists of extracting a small amount of blood from a vein / artery (5 to 10 ml) and inject it into a large muscle (such as buttocks or quadriceps).
The theory behind this is that the immune system is alerted to "check" the substance that is entering the body, and more easily recognizes the bad ones, so then it is able to recognize again the bad boys who escaped under his sight inside the body.
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Sonia is that done in the US?
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Most of you probably already know of these foods, but for those who don't this is from Dr Axe. Foods that stimulate stem cells
https://draxe.com/he…/cancer/cancer-stem-cell-killing-foods/
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Nicole, as far as I know, that therapy is used in Europe and also here in South America. I don't know if it's used in the US. The advantage is that any nurse can do it, the disadvantage is 2 or 3 punctures per week (we already have enough punctures).
But I suppose that for those who have placed a port that can also be used for extractions, it is only to find a qualified nurse and pay for the extraction / injection
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EDIT:
Snooky you got me looking on Dr. Axe
and i have recently been looking into milk thistle...and I found this on his page, I cross posted this in the liver mets page since it has to do with the liver but I think I remember people mentioning Milk Thistle here too so I am hoping people with chime in;Can someone please tell me their thoughts on milk Thistle for when liver enzymes are high. I saw on people say its great but then I read on Dr. AXE this:
Also note that antioxidants like those found in milk thistle have been shown to possibly interfere with the efficacy of some cancer chemotherapy drugs by protecting cancer cells from cell death.
Can anyone add anything about this?
I am going to cross post as well in other thread where I think this subject came up but since this is the Liver Mets thread I am hoping it will get a lot of feedback.
Thanks ladies
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Nicole, I think you mean what Snooky posted on dr.Axe. I take antioxidants and milk thistle, but I can't comment on that because I don't take Ibrance or any other drug for liver mets. I hope you get answers ❤
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Yes sonia my bad...lol she didn't post that she just posted something else on Dr. Axe but it got me looking there..lol
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Nicole this seems to me to be more of a blanket "CYA" comment. They don't want someone with a specific contraindication to take Milk Thistle without asking their doctor.
Maybe google milk thistle + Ibrance, or google +Letrozole or whatever you might be taking to get something more specific. My Integratve MO said that idea "antioxidants help the cancer" is wrong, but there CAN be specific reasons for *certain* supplements to be avoided because of Hormonal effects or other effects in the body (but not because of their overall antioxidant effect). Antioxidants in general are not a problem, but rather a benefit to most cancer patients.
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Santa i actually did google that before I posted I just didn't mention it because I was mainly wanting to know if anyone knew about the drug interaction..I didn't find anything as far as hormonal only about chemo and chemo type drugs ie: Ibrance.
I am hoping that taking it just for a short time to help improve numbers would be better than taking it regularly..but who knows.0 -
Nichole there's a thread on this site, "Milk Thistle Dr OZ" you might want to check out.
Also I found this on MedMD
Estrogens interacts with MILK THISTLE
Milk thistle might decrease hormones in the body. Milk thistle might help the body break down estrogen pills to get rid of them. Taking milk thistle along with estrogens might decrease the effectiveness of estrogen pills.<br /> Milk thistle contains a chemical called silymarin. Silymarin might be the part of milk thistle that helps the body break down estrogens.<br /> Some estrogen pills include conjugated equine estrogens (Premarin), ethinyl estradiol, estradiol, and others.
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To me, it sounds like a good thing. ?????? There were 75 reviews on WedMD none of them were from cancer patients. Most folks took it from alccholism.
Another study at https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/0912...
Plus I remember reading on the Zeloda thread one poster said her ONC told her to take Milk Thistle to help prevent H/F. She's been taking it for years.
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Yea I didn't find anything when I googled it about it interfering in a bad way with hormones.
Wow yea that does sound good thanks for adding that in Snooky!
Snook...yea the thread on here that you mentioned...I read it...lol one person posted pretty much the same info I did about how it can react with chemo and chemo type meds..and then the majority of the people were saying they wont take it because of that or that their MO said no to taking it. I wish that would have been more helpful. ughhh.
I do remember Goldie saying something about milk thistle I didn't know anything about it then so I didn't pay a whole lot of attention but maybe she found out more about it??
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If alcoholics take it something tells me it must be good for the liver.
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I did ask the Hopkins pharmacist for the breast cancer program about milk thistle. She discouraged me taking it with an estrogen-positive cancer. Having said that, though, she basically was reading from some online thingie that they use when patients ask them about different supplements.
I do agree with Santa, though, that if alcoholics take it, it must be good for the liver.
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Milk thistle does raise some confusion. It would appear from this study in humans that it does not interact with liver enzymes that process drugs.
http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/42/10/1611
Here, Mayo Clinic says just the opposite, and that it might inhibit Cyp2c9. They also say it might be estrogenic.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-milk-...
The question as to whether it has some estrogenic properties and how those might effect HR+ breast cancer was a bit of a concern for me. Its one of those murky subjects, like flax seed, lacking a definitive answer, at least back when I looked into it.
Memorial Sloan Kettering, About Herbs says it may inhibit Cyp3A4, but there is conflicting evidence.
They also say:
Both silymarin (27) and silibinin (48) have estrogenic effects with greater affinity for estrogen receptor (ER-beta), and activation of ER-beta results in suppression of cell growth.
https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrative-medi...
So, sources of info are all over the map.
Have you looked into Alpha Lipoic Acid?
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Nicole, I know that I was planning on taking milk thistle recently but did not do so as I read about an interaction with tamoxifen. Unfortunate, as it has a lot of liver protective and healing properties.
I found the following study where milk thistle was tested in breast cancer in mice to determine whether it would prevent tumors/help them shrink and it actually caused them to grow, both in the mice and in MCF-7 (aka hormone positive) cell cultures.
https://academic.oup.com/carcin/article/27/9/1739/239221I have also heard that the concerning part of milk thistle that has estrogenic properties comes from the plant (above-ground portions) and that the seeds are okay.
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Dear All, we go for ALA, NAC and Cordyceps instead of milk-thistle. Dear Sonia, no I did not hear about autohemotherapy, I'll definitely read about it... she does not have a port though. Saulius
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Saulius...can you say what the name is of ALA NAC???
Huband11, no I have not heard or read about Alpha Lipoic Acid? Is it suppose to help lower liver numbers?
JFL & Husband... if what you mentioned is correct (about the extract from the seeds being ok) well this is the one I was looking into and it says it is from the seed....
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PP1YLDK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and here is what it says...
POTENT 30:1 CONCENTRATION: FarmHaven's seed extract content means you're choosing a high strength and high purity product that's also good for the earth. Our Milk Thistle pills contain a 30:1 concentrate extract so each capsule actually delivers the equivalent of 11,250mg raw Milk Thistle seed for improved bioavailability and absorption.
So I wonder if that would make a difference. My desire is to ONLY take it if my numbers get higher when on the protocols... I do not want to take it daily indefinitely...maybe then it wouldn't be as bad...*shurrgs shoulders*
EDITED to ADD in:
Husband I just glanced (I am leaving shortly for an appointment)
at Alpha Lipoic Acid and I see it also says something about lowering blood sugar levels that could be great for me since my doctor didn't wan to prescribe the Metformin..
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Dear Nicole, ALA stands for "Alpha Lipoic Acid" (Husband has already mentioned it), and NAC for "N-Acetyl-Cysteine", they are both very good for the liver, and my wife takes them... I also found for her grape-seed-extract (OPC complexes) which is supposed to be a good estrogen blocker. She's er-/pr- but I have a feeling there might be some escape mechanisms on that side:/ Saulius
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Saulius , I vaguely remember ALA and NAC mentioned as slmething that cancer cells can use for their metabolism- have you looked into it or came across it ?
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Dr Block put me on ALA during chemo, and I continue to take it. Again he is a specialist in Integrative Oncology and a MO with 3 decades of experience using nutritional and supplement support during cancer treatment. His methodology is to feed and strengthen the human being, while annihilating their cancer. He is a very UNUSUAL MO. My hometown MO was nowhere near his level of knowledge on supplements. He balked a little in an "autopilot" way... I am so glad I had Dr Block's help. Eventually, when my liver enzymes were a bit high mid chemo, he looked up everything I was on to rule out any supplement causing the issue, and reported "all of them look helpful and not harmful." At my 1-year post diagnosis appointment he told me that he thought they had made a giant difference to my treatment as my outcome was much better than he would have predicted when I walked in with advanced TNBC. He advised me to stay on everything.
There will always be supplement "naysayers...." it is important to realize whether the negative info about a supplement is "autopilot negative" or thoughtful, informed, specific negative I think it is a RARE oncologist who has detailed knowledge of ANY of these nutritional supports. So they often "just say no."
Nicole, another blood sugar lowering med is Berberine. It is sugested by Jane McClelland as a pathway blocker. I added it after reading her book. But I might, if I was you, get a second opinion on metformin if there was not a specific reason given.. My blood sugar was 99 when diagnosed and it's only down to 90 now. Both normal scores.
Unless a MD has a *specific* reason to forbid something (like "DHA is a pre-Androgen, and your cancer is AR+, so, NO") I would not put great faith in the level of knowledge behind these blanket "NOs" like "antioxidants might help the cancer." I see these blanket "nos" as a signal of the person not being well informed or experienced on the topic.
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Dear Nicole, Dear Santabarbarian, as much as I have done my research, and I do it very carefully, I found a lot of positives for NAC and ALA. ALA, if I am not mistaken, is one of the things that is converted to omega3 in your body which is very anticancer. NAC is in many studies, and showed reduced Ki67 and proliferation, so, ah, I don't know... We worked also on omega3:omega6 ratio (there are studies that say an anticancer environment is when O3:O6=1:3 but for many westerners this ratio is something like 1:25...), and ALA sort of adds to that... I think both are not harmful regarding er/pr expression. But hey, guys, this thread is for FenBen, so let's not get carried away...
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Thank you all so much for your input..I will have read and re-read all this to absorb it. What a blessing though for all your contributions. Santa yes..I forgot about the berberine, Bev mentioned that to me once.
I should mention my blood sugar is good...my last fasting one for the PET scan was 82.
Saulius..Yes I NEED a reduction in Ki67 mine was 70%
What dosage mg/how many per day do you recommend for the ALA and NAC?I really feel so blessed to have you all helping with all of this and with all questions
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I have also read good things about SAMe for liver damage.
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The fights with my MO have come to an impasse, and I've decided with great relief, to switch to a anotheroncologist...wish me luck!
His care has been an unmitigated disaster. From putting me on a stupid clinical trial that almost killed me, to giving Pfizer my core biopsies, before ensuring that I had an updated genetic update, to insisting on a Y90 after I explained in details my reasons for postponing it. To insisting on a Pet one month after the last one, that was not approved by my insurance company, to insisting I take another one immediately—2 month's from the last one—, although the most recent blood test shows the TM are receding....
I hope that from now on, my concerns will be given proper consideration instead of being dismissed. I swear not seeing him anymore, will be very healing....his macho, know it all attitude when I had liver progression under his watch is totally uncalled for. Humility would be more appropriate...
I'm still agitated, but I'm sure this change will be for the better...it's funny...I didn't want to hurt his feelings...what some of us women put up with is amazing
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frisky, was not your mo female from Russian origins ?
Thank you for info everybody , off I go to take ALA- according to a Geneva lab tests that my complementary doctor ordered former I am severely deficient in that one but I did not dare to start it.
I think discussing other supplements ties in well with fenben, nice to keep a lot of useful info together.
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no, the Russian doctor is my primary physician. I had a male oncologist from the Middle East, that was very condescending. I put up with him for the past year, but after seeing him making so many mistakes...it has become apparent that his reputation is hardly what it seems....
my favorite nurse helped switch to an experienced woman MO that she believes will be right for me. I immediately recognized her name because she had treated another beloved BCO member for many years
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Frisky, congratulations on having made the decision to abandon your MO! From what you say, he was quite inept. I hope the new one is open-minded enough to support you in your holistic treatments and also she knows better what she is doing. My MO also makes all kinds of bureaucratic mistakes. But there are mistakes and MISTAKES... and we are the ones who put the body...
I'm sorry you had to deal with all that extra stress ...
PD: I was discussing hormone therapy with my MO, and she told me: "I usually start with Tamoxifen" 🤔🤔🤔 It doesn't seem that I am receiving a very personalized attention ...
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