Ringworm drug for dogs (Fenbendazole) might also cure cancer
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This is why I think a bunch of us (myself included) have from time to time said "it gets very overwhelming and confusing because as soon as something sounds good...there is something that contradicts it" it really gets frustrating. Don't get me wrong I am glad to hear it all...it just stinks when we "think" we have a good thing ..only to hear it might not be a good thing after all.....
Thanks for the article though mysticalcity
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Stanford study describes spice makers adding lead to turmeric
Can’t trust anything, anymore nowadays....I understand now why long-term fasting is so good for our health....
https://newatlas.com/medical/stanford-study-spice-makers-lead-turmeric/
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Frisky, seriously about the fasting!! One just cannot win.
Mysticalcity, thanks for posting the information. I spent many years avoiding Vitamin C for fear it helped the cancer to grow after evidence first came out similar to what is described in that article. I then very recently resumed it - based on some studies that had shown it had helped to treat cancer when given in high doses combined with doxycycline. What is one to do . . . . ?! Some certainty on these issues would be much welcomed!
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Dear all, yes we use NAC, 600 mg/d, which is a small amount. In fact, almost everything that is foundation of many diets is an antioxidant: fish oil in Scandinavian diet, garlic, tomatoes and chilies in Mediterranean, carrots in Europe, avocados in Americas... Everyone agrees that products like these are THE REASON why people live longer, happier and healthier, so what the heck?:) I see only two ways... First, can anyone ask, because I am pretty new, moderators (or advisory board) here if antioxidants are good in our cases, which antioxidants and in what amounts? Second, I personally will write to Dr. Bergo and ask that question too. Deal?:) Saulius
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Saulius, all my MOs have been unequivocally against ALL anti-oxidant, it doesn't matter which...it stems from ignorance and need to control. If there are No results from a clinical trial, then it's no good...it's that simple, and since they don't really know what they're doing...it feels good to have something to blame.
However, since everything they do is bound to fail, sooner or later, why would we listen to them? That's suicidal!
Research results are ALL biased because they are controlled by the people that pay for them....lets just wake up and face facts about the world we live in....that's why these boards are so important to all of us....we learn from each other's experiences.I believe, and have many anecdotes to prove it, that without my knowledge and the addition of these natural supplements, I would have been dead a long time ago. For example, I realized, on my own, how much pain relief Magnesium was providing.....Just recently, they have published studies stating exactly what my intelligence was telling me....that we are severely depleted and need to replace it constantly.
After radiation to my spine, I developed out of control diarrhea..THEY couldn’t help me, but I discovered that an.intake of calcium, or a small cheese sandwich took care of that! Let’s see...taking anti diarrhea medications for life a few time @day, vs eating some cheese....hummmm....
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Brilliant writing!
Life as a cancer patient: 'I was corroded, I was mutilated, I was uncertain, I was not OK'
When I was diagnosed with highly aggressive breast cancer, I was confronted with a cure so poisonous that, if I survived, I could lose my eyesight, speech and memory When the technician leaves the room, I turn my head towards the screen to interpret any neoplasms, the webs of nerves, the small lit fonts in which my pathology or my future might be written. The first tumour I ever saw was a darkness on that screen, round with a long craggy finger jutting from it. I took a photo of it from my
Read in the guardian: https://apple.news/AhXUMAXWeMeaUFksSHb4WbQ0 -
I had detailed nutritional tests run. Lots of stuff was ok but some was not. Amongst the one that was not was magnesium. The doctor who ordered the tests told me magnesium deficiency is widespread, everyone has it. Not sure why this particular mineral.
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Dear Frisky, thanks, writing is amazing, there's much truth also about what happens here, although there are differences. I don't live in USA... my wife has been for 10 days in the NCI's hospital after mastectomy and received brilliant care, although we did not spend a dollar, her surgeon was also coming on weekends to change bandages personally (he does not work on weekends), she was allowed to leave earlier if she wished but surgeon said he'd be calmer and happier if she stayed until these max 10 days. After you are released from hospital after such a surgery, if you apply in 5 days, you get a 2 week state-covered rehabilitation ticket to the South of LT, to a semi-hotel-hospital with nurses and rehabilitation program . We did not go for that as she missed our son too much and wanted to come back home. Except for several issues, we did not have much problems at hospitals. Sure, big C takes much of your life away, especially stageIV. Ehm... So what is your take on NAC, as you said you have stopped it? Saulius
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sailuis
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Saulius, what you're describing is heaven on earth...I would move to Lithuania if I could, I know all European countries enjoy similar benefits from their healthcare systems...sometimes there's a certain amount of bad timing and cruelty in life, how things turn out...couple years before being diagnosed I was planning to move back to Europe...it was only question of deciding which city...Paris, Barcelona, Rome....but I didn't escape on time....
I did suspend NAC after I read the MacLelland book, simply because by curing herself she has proven that she knows what she's doing. She is against a number of antioxidants, but she was dealing with her particular cancer, and all her research pointed toward medications that would help her case.
I Recently started taking again, because your wife was taking it, and because I think you do your homework and also know what you're doing...I'm stopping out of ignorance and exhaustion...no particular reason...
I had been taking it for years before I was diagnosed with progression in the liver...so maybe that has something to do with it...
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Personally, I think that almost everything that feeds healthy cells will eventually also feed cancer cells. The good thing is that the protocols include substances that kill cancer cells. I don't think it makes sense to deprive the body of antioxidants, since the protocol does not use the route of oxidation to kill bad boys. On the contrary, if fenben and other drugs destroy microtubules, we need antioxidants and other supplements to help strengthen the immune system. It is my reasoning ...
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Dear all, here's what I have just sent to Fr. Bergö,
"Dear Dr. Bergö,
I am aconcerned husband of a 35 year old wife who has stage IV breast cancer (ER-/PR-/HER2+). We have been using NAC (600 mg/day) as a supplement while she is on maintenance Trastuzumab+Pertuzumab but after reading several articles about your latest research of antioxidant interaction with cancer we are not aware for what to do next: keep supplementing with antioxidants like NAC, Fish-Oil, fresh-carrot juice, Cordyceps, Zinc (Zn), Garlic, etc., or quit using them? Actually it is not only our concern but also concern of many stage IV BC (with different ER/PR/HER2 settings) patients whom I talk to in different communities. I would appreciate your insights a lot. Thank you very much in advance and sincerely,
Saulius B., Lithuania"
Let's wait for the answer. From my experience, all of them usually answer within a week.
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Aaaa, here we go, here is the answer (faster than in a week):
"I would recommend skipping all those supplements. If the total dose of antioxidants becomes too high, you may accelerate metastasis. We have primarily studied this effect in lung cancer and melanoma but there are strong reasons to believe that breast cancer can be affected similarly. I would only recommend a supplement in case of a clinically detectable deficiency of some sort. Don't hesitate to ask follow up questions."
So what do we do now?
Saulius
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Here is what my Integrative MO's website has to say about NAC and other antioxidants....
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Santabarbarian, what is your supplement list, if I may ask? Thanks a lot! Saulius
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Saulius...here was Santa's post with what she takes:
Sep 20, 2019 01:10PM santabarbarian wrote:
I am ingesting my 2nd slew of pills of the day. This is my routine, some SPECIFIC to TNBC so YMMV...
am: metformin, E, Pentoxifylline
noon w food: supplements (curcumin, ubiquinol, quercetin, egcg, rose hip, selenium, B6, D3, Calicium D Glucarate, luteolin, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Indol 3 Carbinol, berberine, sea buckthorn, Omega 3 -- from deep sea nordic wild caught fish, reishi mushroom, baby aspirin, ursolic acid , C, Feverfew, Resveratrol, Astragalus)
after dinner: supplements, as above
bedtime: metformin, pentoxyiylline, magnesium citrate, ashwaganda, melatonin. Will likely add CBD here.
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Wow so all this data about antioxidants seems to much to ignore (for me right now )...I think I am going to leave them out for now.
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Saulius,
P!ease keep in mind Santa is currently not in treatment. Many of those may interfere with the meds being taken.
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The truth is that whenever I stopped taking my supplements I felt really bad. Horrible, in fact!
I can't function...my memory is shot, my body feels all sorts of unbearable aches and pains, so for me it's simple...I won't take massive amounts, only what it takes to relieve the disastrous SE of their various cancer treatments.
I don't know how long I have, I chose to live consciously and actively for as long as I can...being catatonic, sleepy, and unable to take care of myself is no way to live, even IF that means living longer...
When I was on that experimental Pfizer drug, I lived like a vegetable for a whole month...so what's the point of living longer? I don't call that living...that's between hell and purgatory...
I do however respect everyone's perspective on this...who knows, maybe a month from now, I'll be happy to look like Jack Nicholson did at the end of One Flew over the Cokoo's Nest...
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Frisky, Joe's protocol does not contradict with antioxidants. Fenben, doxycycline, statins, metformin, cbd, melatonin, none of that uses the oxidation pathway to kill cancer cells. We have to made a choice... I say go ahead!
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That's a great reminder, you're right Sonia, till doctors actually know how to cure us from cancer, everything they say is debatable at best...onward we go! Thank you!
Doxil, for example, is currently making it impossible for me to walk a whole city block without feeling as if I'm having an heart attack...
I'm going to figure out how to resolve this on my own...yesterday when I went to the apple store on 9th ave to buy my ipad, i had to stop about 10 times to catch my breath before I reached fifth ave...
That's the real danger, never mind the antioxidants, severe damage to my heart, nerves, and eyes, suppressed immune system, and intolerable fatigue, all from Doxil, and we don't know yet if it's doing anything meaningful against my cancer cells...I rest my case...
Santa, thank you for posting MD Block explanation of the discrepancies and his take on antioxidants.
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Since I kind of started this exchange about the NAC-I did want to clarify that on McClelland's group they do definitely take some antioxidants-- primarily via food--just not a NAC supplement or oral vitamin C-- they only do high dose Vitamin C by IV. But there are other supplements (and long lists of them) that they are on. . . .her whole approach is to shut down the various metabolic pathways of the cancer. . .and various cancers can have different pathways. So depending on what cancer they have their plans vary. And also varies if they are in active treatments (e.g. chemo) or not. However, MANY of the supplements on Santabarbarian's list are the very same ones many individuals from that group are on. If any of you are on FB here is the link to that group--if you join the group you can search the postings directly: https://www.facebook.com/groups/598895256957128/
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Dear Nicole, thanks for reminding of Santabarbarian's list - now that I see it, I remember it. My fault...
Dear Simone, you are right, our MO asked us not to take anything except for hepatoprotectors (she prescribed Milk Thistle herself) while on chemo, so we obeyed (only cheated a bit with CBD/CBDA but it turned out to be a very correct decision). We were taking my listed supplements while on maintenance Herceptin+Perjeta only, and it was stupid from my side not to mention it, I have to say sorry to everyone.
So now we both with Sandra sat down and discussed what radiation is, and as it is an active treatment, we decided to stay during it (at least for one next monthonly) on: 1.Curcumin+Ginger+Peppers+CoconutOil tea every morning (which we do now for 2 years and it seems very good). 2. Fish-oil (ehm, in our northern countries we drank it all our lives, since we were children, so why not?). 3. Zinc (as Sandra has its deficiency, we tested). 4. Vitamin C (600 mg/d, because harsh winters without vidamin C - what is that???). 5. CBD/CBDA (as we know they work wonders for her).
So, for that... we'll make complete blood tests on Monday. If they are good (as they alwasy were), then keep on described above protocol for a month. Then blood tests again to see what happened. During that month I will study Triple-mushroom, ALA, NAC, Cordyceps, Garlic and Grape-Seed-Extract in detail again, maybe will even go to comprehensive-medicine center for a consultation. Well, I still believe these supplements are good as they have not only antioxidant function, and there is much in serious oncology-studies&articles about their benefits. For example, Grape-Seed-Extract is well recognized as a strong natural aromatase-inhibitor, garlic is also an anti-inflammatory natural substance exchanging Aspirin, triple mushroom complex is prescribed and compensated anticancer-drug in Japan/Korea, Cordiceps Sinensis and ALA are great substances to treat chronic conditions like liver cyrosis and hepatitis, NAC is a powerful antioxidant but also a great detoxify-agent that eases liver and kidney function... Now that I wrote down these properties of all these supplements again, I am contemplating... why not to use them in these small quantities that we were on?:) Ah man, that is crazy...
Saulius
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Saulius...that is what I am wondering..the problem with all this conflicting info is dosage...are antioxidants only not good when high doses are taken?
Sonia, Joes protocol doesn't use Doxy...or metformin that is Janes protocol. Joe did use Vitamin E with Fenben and Curcurmin and CBD. Also this is what I mentioned yesterday...that if Vit E is not good how come Joe took it and is cured? Thinking about it now I cannot remember if he took the E everyday or just 3 days on 4 days off...Dosage could be the difference???
I am wondering if we should post in the Jane thread when we refer to her protocol and here when we talk about Joes?? I think we all see more here thats why it's easy to talk about both here but maybe things conflict differently because the protocols are different? Just a thought?
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FYI I was on all of these supplements DURING carboplatin /Taxotere with no issues. Other chemos I do not know about, but I did fine on lots of antioxidants during chemo
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I was 3C (by today's rubric) with a 3cm axillary lymph node and a 3.8 cm multi-nodal tumor. pCR from chemo + antioxidants.
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Nicole, I was listing everything Frisky takes. My point is that all the things that I have listed act on cancer cells by different pathways, which do not depend on oxidation, therefore they would not be affected by antioxidants ❤
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Thank you Santabarbarian, thank you Nicole. Yes, I think dosage is important. We have been taking all of these supplements in very moderate amounts and we felt they were helping. Damn, I think we will come back to same "protocol" after the radiation, because I don't see any real reasons why not? In the end... Frisky and Yndorian were right. Like always:> Have a good night, Saulius
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We've been trying the high dose melatonin since Saturday night. For both my wife and I, it really causes sleep disturbances. By yesterday I felt like I was going to have a nervous breakdown. So, we are going to try taking it only in the morning at 60 mg strength and see if that impairs sleep. High dose at bed time really messes up sleep.
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gotcha sonia..
I thought you were just talking about the protocols not what someone is speficially taking :Thanks for the heads up I am wondering...how much also the success of supplements, the protocols and treatments are depending on the GRADE of our cancers.... I never hear much talk of about the grades of peoples cancer and I would think that has got to factor in to the success or failures of these protocols and/or supplements.
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